One of the big things about Legends of Windemere: Prodigy of Rainbow Tower is the introduction of Nyx and Trinity. They are the female spellcasters for both sides of the conflict and I think they’re badasses. Very powerful and very tough while still retaining their femininity. I’m proud of how they turned out because they are the types of female characters that I love to read. I will mention that I read mostly fantasy and action, so this is going to be a light combat-skewed.
I picked the Mr. & Mrs. Smith clip because it is one of my favorite fight scenes. Not because of the banter and the flow of it. Those are good, but I love how there is not a single point where Angelina Jolie’s character felt weak or overpowered. This was done without making Brad Pitt’s character come off as weak. They are even in terms of skill, physicality, and determination. She gives as good as she gets and the movie wasn’t afraid to she her taking a shot. I think female heroes shouldn’t be treated with kid gloves and should be shown taking a hit. More importantly, taking a hit and fighting back. I’m not talking about taking a hit, crying, and then doing a cheap shot. That makes a female character cunning, but rather weak.
Xena: Warrior Princess
Focusing on the giving part of the equation, I love it when a female character can take out a male character without converting to a masculine version of herself. Speed, agility, skill, and grace over power and brawn. Even better if both characters are cunning because that makes either of their victory a lot sweeter. It’s strange how people still do the weak female character or turn them into a tough, heartless bitch that will inevitably be thawed by the male lead. I think I threw up a bit on that one. Give me my Xena’s, Fiona from Burn Notice, and Buffy. Still moments of sensitivity, but they will happily beat the crap out of someone that crosses them.
The third factor of a female character that makes me enjoy her is the retention of her female mentality while still being a badass. I’m not talking beating people up while breast-feeding, which is a scene written by someone in college that I shall never cleanse from my mind. I mean the character can be emotional in a tender, gentle way when the situation calls for it. She doesn’t get confused when a guy hugs her after she’s killed a band of orcs. She hugs him back and makes a joke about getting blood on him. I say this should go for male characters too if you’re aiming for the sensitive hero. Sensitivity does not equal weak, which is an assumption that has to stop.
Finally, I love my female villains to be smart, but still able to fail and not whores. I’ve noticed a trend with many female villains that they are one of two types. They are either the seductive ho villain or they are so smart and perfect that you can’t believe they’re going to be defeated. It’s like the writers are either misogynistic (that right?) or are terrified to make a female villain that is as bungling as some of the male villains. I’m looking at you Gargamel and Skeletor. I want my female villains to be as realistic as my male villains with the same amount of smarts, evil, confidence, and touch of ineptitude. That might sound strange, but it makes me enjoy the character even more.
Heck, I like it when my female heroes have the same level of ineptitude of a male hero.
Mother of true female heroes?
That’s why Nyx is about as flawed as Luke Callindor in terms of personality. She might not have his ego and recklessness, but she has that nasty temper.
So, I like my female characters to be smart, flawed, able to take a hit, and able to go toe-to-toe with the male characters. What do you look for in female characters?
Legends of Windemere 
Love Xena! And Wonder Woman! I also liked Captain Janeway from Voyager. She was strong and capable, and yet she had a big heart and loved her crew.
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Temperance Brennan from Bones is another great female hero. It’s a shame there aren’t as many female hero series out there beyond all these smart, sexy spy series. I want a female ass-kicker that’s as straightforward and blunt as a guy.
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Cool. I like a little feminine softness too. Like Laura Croft with her long hair.
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Lara Croft is badass. Angelina Jolie seems to gravitate toward those action heroes. Similar to her character in Wanted, but that one was a lot colder until the end.
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Character, Strength and Sensitivity. A little bit of a nurturer in an independent personality that can hold her own in any given situation, but can compete with males in both wit and strength. Power can be a feminine thing but much different than the masculine power men hold. It is more seductive and less political. it can have masculine qualities, but almost always holds a bit more compassion than you might see from most men.
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I agree with almost all of that, except for feminine power being less political. I see women as being equally political as males, but with more of a focus on subtle manipulation than outright threatening. Both genders have their own style when it comes to political actions.
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Point well taken. I do think they let emotions get in the way in the political arena and that is why we have not had any female Presidents like Elizabeth Dole or Hilary Clinton. Even Condalesa Rice, as tough and powerful as she was, couldn’t stand up to the plate. As a warrior woman, I would have to think more about female war heroes. There were some I am sure. But in fantasy, they would be much more dramatic. There, they can really grow balls.
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I think the block to a female President is more the status quo issue. We could have had one when the right one showed up and was teflon. Hilary Clinton had too much baggage as did Sarah Palin. If you get a woman that is actually good and trusted by most then she’d get the job.
After all, other countries have had female Prime Ministers. I don’t think gender should be an issue when it comes to politics.
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Warrior Women are true warriors and Goddesses can be just as powerful as Gods or more so.
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The movie Hancock actually had it that Charlize Theron was stronger than Will Smith. She even said the Goddesses were stronger. In a lot of mythology, they tended to be because women were seen as more magical due to being able to give birth.
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That’s interesting.
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I don’t cry very often and when I do, I don’t like for people to see me. I guess it sends a signal of weakness that I feel a strong woman should should keep obscured. I cry more when I am very happy than when I am very sad.
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I can see that. My personal belief is that it takes more courage to cry in public than to cry in private. I transfer this to my characters, so both genders will cry in the open if the situation calls for it. Although, Nyx crying tends to have spouts of flame if she’s really upset. So I don’t do that with her too often.
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Ask any abused male, women can often fight more furiously than their male counterparts, and dynamite often comes in small packages.
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I think for a lot of guys, we hold back too. Even when being attacked by a woman, there’s an instinct for many guys to not hurt her. You restrain and push away, but you can never actually strike to fight back. At least that’s a mentality that I have when I think about the situation. Thankfully I’ve never been in it.
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You are indoctrinated at an early age that hitting girls is not okay.
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It’s interesting how boys are taught that, but I’ve heard some parents teach their daughters to hits boys even for verbal teasing.
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A boy spit a loogie into my hair after school one day and I kicked him in the nuts, he was the football team quarterback. The principle called me in and my dad came to the school. My dad condoned what I did to “defend” myself and that was the end of that. The principle did keep one eye on me after that.
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As much as I understand that, some maneuvers are plain harsh.
The kick to the groin for anything less than a true fight always comes off as overkill. I’ve had these conversations with female friends that don’t seem to get how painful that is. You literally feel like you’re about to vomit your entire digestive system. It’s a crippling move that you’ll see most guys avoid doing to each other. It’s one of those ‘crosses the lines’ acts among males.
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Which is precisely why I chose to do it. was a cheerleader and rode the bus with him and I wanted to let him know in no uncertain terms that I was a force to be reckoned with and he had best keep his spit to himself. Spitting on someone is, by law, a form of battery. But you are right, you won’t see it as a masculine move on anything but maybe as an accident on a comedy…a “real” man would not do that.
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See this is where we’re going to differ. As a guy, I would see such a reaction to spitting (which I agree is batter) as overkill. A punch or kick can earn that, but spitting earning a groin kick comes off as wrong. It’s like seeing a small boy poke a girl in the ribs and her reaction is to hit him with a brick in the face. Sure, he did something wrong, but she escalated to a point that doesn’t match the original act. I understand having to make a point, but one has to be careful that the point doesn’t come with the reputation of being a cruel, over-reacting person. In fact, such an act typically turns the victim into the aggressor, earning sympathy for the other person.
Bringing this back to writing, you do have to be careful about this. A female character that reacts to acts that do not incur pain with a groin kick is seen as a heartless bitch and would lose the support of many readers. There has to be a balance between levels of action or the reacting character gets damaged. There are other ways to be a force to be reckoned with than the automatic game over move that could cause permanent damage.
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and it was a great big juicy nasty coughed up deep throat loogie NOT just a little spittle
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Yeah. I’ve been the victim of those from both genders. I find it better to either spit back or gather it on my hand and slap them with it. Again, groin kick is a nuclear option that I think should be avoided unless the person intends to murder, severely injure, or rape you. It truly is a game over and I don’t think women have much of a clue how much it hurts.
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A very insightfull read as usual, but let’s face it, you completely bought me with that Xena picture:D
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I figured I’d get a lot of Xena fans. I so wish they got Lucy Lawless to play Wonder Woman in a movie. She was The One and DC botched it.
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She will always and forever be Xena, I would find it weird to watch her as another big character.
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I thought she was great in Spartacus. She’ll always be Xena, but I always enjoy seeing any of the old Hercules & Xena actors show up.
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Women are true masters at evil. They don’t play by the same rules men do. If two men get into a fight in a bar they are apt to exchange a few punches, women would rip each other apart!
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I get into this conversation with a friend of mine. We’ve also noticed the grudge-holding of women. Say what you want about the caveman style of males, but we beat each other up and it’s usually over. One fight and it settles. Females will carve up each others reputations, friendships, and everything they can get to if they’re pissed off. I’m going by my experience as a substitute teacher here. Many of those high school girls were so vicious that the guys were scared of them.
I love one quote from a high school kid when two girls were in the midst of a month-long feud. “Why don’t you bitches just punch each other and be done with it? This is why people say bitches be crazy.”
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Exactly…For some reason I have this image in my mind of velcro balls.
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I was thinking more along the lines of crazy mob families.
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First off, go xena! Secondly, I expect that my female hero will be able to do hand to hand and verbal combat just as well as she can use magic. This is important to me for two main reasons: 1. If she is quick witted and able to form comebacks easily even in high stress situations, then I trust she can be depended upon to think fast in an emergency/puzzling time. 2. There are times when magic is useless. I want her to have an “oh f it” attitude and run out the gate charging, no matter the size or intimidation factor of the opponent. If the character spends too much time constantly reassuring everyone she is at least as tough as the male hero I lose interest. Show me that, woman!
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Fully agree with that last part. A lot of authors spend an entire book ‘proving’ the female heroes are on par with the males. You only need one scene for that if you really want to be blatant. It’s better to do it by letting the character be natural.
Also, I’m guessing you liked Nyx.
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I do, for a variety of reasons. One being that you handle her introduction smoothly. Only one chance to make a first impression.
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I love the first appearance of characters. I can only hope that Sari and the other champions get equally amazing intros.
Still, Nyx has become one of my favorite characters to write. Although, I think she’s wearing herself down in the current book. My heroes are exhausted after having two adventures back-to-back with major battles. A few of them are even complaining about not getting rest. Nyx keeps telling them to shut up, but she’s not playing with her enemies as much as she did at the beginning of the book.
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“Sensitivity does not equal weak.” I could not agree more!!! I strive to craft female characters that are sensitive and yet also strong in various ways…. some of them not physically, but emotionally they have great endurance and they have hope to continue fighting a losing battle because they find a purpose for their struggle.
A strong female character CAN be badass, but I don’t think she has to be, even in fantasy.
I always thinks it’s harder for people to write characters of the opposite gender, so I have much more trouble crafting believable male characters than female. I have to be very conscious of not falling into stereotypes and, on the other end, not feminizing them.
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The stereotypes are tough to avoid and I’m lucky that I seem to write my female characters with more confidence than my males. I think I spent a lot of time working on them in the planning stage.
As for the badass part, I agree. Although, I don’t think the female badass has been used to its proper potential as often as it could be. As I said, it’s usually the ass-kicker with a heart of ice and that turns the character into a strange gender-neutral thing. What I mean be female badass is one that can whup her enemies, but retain her femininity. If that makes any sense.
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It does make sense. And I agree. I don’t know why people seem to think a warrior woman needs to be devoid of any and all emotion…. that’s ridiculous.
Have you ever read “The Riyria Revelations” by Michale J Sullivan? They’re fantastic…. he’s got a couple of female characters…. Arista and Thrace…. who are amazing. Just truly amazing. They completely shatter that mold you talk about.
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I haven’t read that. In Ranger’s Apprentice, the female characters are all tough and as smart as the guys. Even when one is captured, she does enough to help the heroes and manipulate the villain. They don’t have many warrior women though. Last book I read with one of those is a Burn Notice novel if you can count Fiona from that tv series.
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I want what I want in male characters: for them to be themselves, for their personalities and skills to be believable based on their background (so not everyone is going to be a perfect blend of badass and feminine mystique). I want them to behave like characters, not stereotypes. I want them to be allowed to fail, to cry, to throw up, to have things be all business, or to be as seductive and cunning as they want without being dismissed for it. I want them to be diverse and interesting, even if that means I don’t always like them or agree with what they’re doing. I want them to be allowed moments of darkness or confusion, and to not always have to be classy or noble or beautiful. I want them to be able to take charge when they want something (be it victory, sex, or a roast chicken), and to be able to let others take over when that’s appropriate.
Yep, pretty much goes for all characters no matter what their gender or position in the story. 🙂
Nyx sounds pretty amazing, BTW. We don’t see nearly enough ladies with nasty tempers in fiction.
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That’s a long list of wants and I agree that it should go for both genders. I’ll admit the reason of the post is because I’m introducing two strong female characters that I’m admittedly proud of.
I had a hard time balancing Nyx. She has the temper, but I didn’t want that to be all her. I needed some sensitivity and vulnerability in there to give her depth. Took a few edits to get that right.
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I bet! It’s so hard, knowing how harshly readers will judge a non-stereotypical female character, no matter what you do. It sounds like you went with your gut and created someone amazing. 🙂
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So far people have been loving Nyx. More than Luke, so I feel sorry for him. Luke really is the standard young hero, but I needed one of my six main characters to be that type.
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Aww, poor Luke! Just don’t tell him, maybe? Or do they read reviews?
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He has the biggest amount of growth out of the heroes too. The others start with some level of experience or knowledge of their path. He’s all green and out of his depth, so I think it takes a while for him to get his bearings.
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…and I like that in a character, too. 🙂
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Great. Some people hate his immaturity and want him to be a full-blown hero by the end of the first book. I don’t see how that’s a good idea when it’s a 15 book series.
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Gotta leave room for growth, people!
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I wonder if some people don’t realize it’s a series.
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That’s possible, though you might think the title would be a dead give-away. I understand wanting some kind of resolution in each book of a series, but if a character ends up fully developed, there’s really nowhere for him to go.
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Also, the plot for the second book is set up at the end of the first. I added a ‘to be continued in’ page too. I agree that full evolution in the first book kills the character’s appeal. I think people are impatient when it comes to a character changing.
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I completely agree with you! I’m trying to create something like that as well! I love strong female characters but I’d rather go for a pure warrior! And Buffy is one of my favourites!
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Buffy is one of the legends. What do you mean by pure warrior?
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Well maybe is just in my head but I divide them in pure warrior, which is just warriors and maybe mage who can also fight like a warrior…does it make sense?
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I get it. The warrior without magic and then the magic-user. Women have tended to be used more as sorceresses and priestesses. If you’re lucky, you get a female archer in the old days.
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I love bow as weapon! So why not!!! Or even using a typical manly weapon would be different. Of course there is still the need to be consistent with the body type, but I have to think about that!
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I’m working on how to have an effective crossbow fighter since those are hard to reload. He’ll get better with a magic crossbow, but at first I need to figure out a style that allows me to reload and fight. Thinking of a simple hand crossbow.
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Or you can do something modernish and use a kind of technology like the goblin do in WOW! Something powered by water or steam or even magic filter or something that let the crossbow to be reloaded. What do you think?
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Possibly. The only issue would be that it would have to make the weapon bigger and heavier. The character is a stealthy thief, so I don’t want to give him anything that would slow him down. There are repeating crossbows, which have 5 shots. Given his character type, I could make him a fighter that runs, dodges, and waits for openings.
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fair enough! You know you “babies” better than anybody anyway!! I like the idea!
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I have a while before I get to this guy. Once he gets the magic crossbow the works off his creativity and life force, the old one will be a moot point.
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Great!
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I think it very much depends on the genre you are writing in and what your readers are looking for. I like the way that you have given a lot of thought to your female characters and tried to look at them from a female perspective but as I don’t write fantasy or action, they would not be kind of characters I would write – hence, it depends on the genre. 🙂
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Interesting. What kind of characters would you write? I’m curious how this changes for genre.
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For me it depends on the storyline. If you are writing a story for women then chances are you want a strong male character (which is what every woman fantasises about, regardless of what they may say) and so you would need the female to be complementary to that. I like my women to be real so they’re not the high flyers with the perfect figure, life and job, they are the everyday people like me. Obviously they have to have some attraction otherwise the plot won’t work but they need to have some vulnerability but also a point where they will break. They wouldn’t be pushovers but they may at the start, shy away from conflict. It is endless possibilities really – the character for me fits into how I see the story going, there is no typical female character. Hope that random waffle made sense!
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It makes sense. Sounds like it’s the type you would find in a romance or drama, so I can see how genre differs.
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Xena and Buffy for sure are my ideal Heroines 🙂
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Gotta love the classics.
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Wonderwoman was a bit too stilted in her fight scenes, whereas X & B kick ASS 🙂
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I only know Wonderwoman from the comics, so I don’t know how she was in the show.
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Stilted 😀
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Love this post. And I especially love this: “I love how there is not a single point where Angelina Jolie’s character felt weak or overpowered. This was done without making Brad Pitt’s character come off as weak. They are even in terms of skill, physicality, and determination.” One of my pet peeves is when an author crafts the males in a book to look stupid or bumbling to allow the heroine to seem strong. Ugh! Or when the heroine is PMSy that she’s unrealistic or unlikable. Bitchiness does not equal strength.
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I truly despise that type of stuff. The saddest thing is where you see it more often is commercials. I avoid them because I’m tired of seeing the ‘stupid’ husband/boyfriend/male make an idiot of himself until the intelligent wife/girlfriend/female fixes it. I rarely see the roles reversed unless the woman is being ‘adorably silly’. Ugh. Makes me not want to buy anything ever again.
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as my story starts off in the stone age I have to be true to history as to the role of women…but as the story advances my female characters will get much stronger including at one point in a later Epoch covering female dominated cultures which occur later in our history…
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Historical stories are a great example of researching gender roles. What do you think of the trend of doing historical stories that show women as the opposite of what history had them as?
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generally I am not a fan of people who do this unless they have consequences for the odd behaviour in context to era… for example a strong independent woman in puritanical Salam would probably been accused of being a witch in the end, but along the way a writer can break from history to make social commentary…
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Good point. The ‘against the mold’ with no consequences for both genders is rather stretched when it’s done.
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I’ve just got to say that it was awesome to read this post – especially having it written by a man. I hope that doesn’t sound sexist of me, but I always love it when people (I don’t care who) understand that women can be more than capable (albeit sometimes with different ‘strengths’ than men).
And more than that, I love it when people understand that a woman does not have to be some sexy little siren to HAVE power. It’s amusing sometimes, yes, but is part of a much bigger issue that I’ll not get into currently.
It’s kind of like . . . take for example – skimpy armor. Looks good on book covers and in video games. Whatever. And I’m not dissing games. I love gaming.
IT WOULD NOT BE PRACTICAL.
I can tell you right now that if I were going off into battle, preparing to be slashed at by blades . . . Every bit of me that COULD be covered, WOULD be covered.
That’s just reality. And even fantasy, while FANTASY, should be real enough to make people stop and think, “Hey . . . this might possibly could have happened.” You want to be immersed.
I know you understand about that sort of thing by reading one (or some, my memory is bad) of your posts about weapons. You do not put bloody knives in sheathes. A little bit of practicality can go a long way.
Wow, I got off subject.
Honestly, all I wanted to say about this was . . . it’s nice to see some good, old-fashioned ass-kicking (pardon the language) in books. Especially when someone needs a good one. Women can do some pretty good kicking sometimes.
But I loved this post.
Everything about it. Thanks for posting. 🙂
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Fully agree with the armor. I think this video sums it up perfectly:
I think I’ve been talking to British people more than Americans. I saw ‘bloody knives’ and I didn’t realize you meant knives covered in blood. I was about to write ‘knives have sheathes’.
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YEP!
That video was seriously perfect for the point. Thanks for sharing. 😉
And it’s funny because it took me a few tries (I’ll blame it on being sleepy) to realize what you were talking about on the second half.
You were like, “Knives have sheathes.”
And I was like (like, omg, like – SORRY >.<), "Yes . . . I . . . I uh, know they do."
Then I figured it out.
I don't think the word bloody has ever caused me so much confusion. haha
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Same here. It’s a tricky word these days.
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It think they need to be strong yet vulnerable, just as male characters should be if you want them to be believable. Just my 2 cents.
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It’s all about balance with characters. Even in real life, you find issues if you’re only one or the other.
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How true. The characters would also lack depth being only one or the other.
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And nobody wants that. It’d be a book killer.
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Without a doubt. I know that it would kill it for me.
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Would you ask the same question about male characters? Why or why not?
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Yes, but I have in a way. Whenever I ask what people want in their characters, they inevitably speak about the male hero and villain. I have to specifically state ‘female’ to get most people on that track from the start.
The ‘tradition’ has been men are the heroes and women are the damsels. We still use this mentality at times because the female lead outside of a romance is fairly new. How many female warriors were highlighted in the Iliad or the Odyssey? How many Shakespeare plays focus exclusively on a female instead of a male (Hamlet, Macbeth) or a couple (Romoe & Juliet)? Because of this, I have to be specific when I want opinions on female characters. Otherwise, most people assume male because of the archaic standard.
When I get closer to a book where another male hero debuts, I’ll probably pose a similar question to this using his type in there.
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That’s a great question. 🙂 The Aes Sedai are one of the features I loved about Robert Jordan’s never-ending Wheel of Time series. The characterization was very detailed and fascinating, and there were a variety of intricacies explored. Personlitiy-wise, they displayed many feminine traits; and many (like Suane when she lost her powers) employed very human means of powers that we could all imagine a non-superhuman using.
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I didn’t make it very far in the Wheel of Time series. I’ve heard of the Aes Sedai, but only in passing. I really need to read more epic fantasy, but those 500 pagers feel daunting with my limited time.
Anyway, I have a lot of respect for Robert Jordan and anyone who creates detailed characters. I’m glad there are authors out there moving the female hero to the forefront and not making her a caricature or male-type.
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Something has to be real about them – something I can relate to. That differs from one character to another.
Ellespeth
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Realism is key even in fantasy. You need a hook for every character.
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Yes. I’m an Anne Rice fan – not the vampire tales, but her other works. I was surprised how easily she walked me into her novels The Witching Hour and Lasher.
Ellespeth
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My sister is a big fan. She has a signed picture too that I got her for her birthday.
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Oh! For many years, I drove right past her house to get to work each morning. Beautiful home…this was before her husband died.
Ellespeth
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That’s cool, except for the second part which is sad. I didn’t know about that. I wasn’t really into those books, so I know little about her.
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you have so many comments, I almost lost hope that I would find the end of this list. It seems everyone else adored your character study..hugging someone after killing ocrcs and teasing about getting blood on the guy- great details
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Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. 🙂
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perfect
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