Tauriel from The Hobbit Movie
Because I don’t feel like getting work done today!
Seriously though, this is such a hot button topic. People take romantic storylines seriously, especially outside of that genre. In fact, I see many complain about it appearing in other stories. There’s a strange push to keep love and romance away from everything else. It’s as if this is an infectious disease literature. I will admit that there are some stories that get a romantic story added in after the fact and it simply doesn’t work. *wink wink nudge nudge at the picture* Though that tends to be when you have something established without romance being a theme and the topic gets added.
Here’s my personal opinion on romance in other genres: Whatever. I’ll go into tips and advice for putting it into fantasy on Wednesday. For now, all I’m going to say is that I don’t see a problem if it’s done correctly. Also, a story that has a focus on character evolution opens itself to a romantic subplot. I get complaints about Luke’s love life all the time because people don’t think it deserves any attention or it gets too much. Yet a core piece of this series is him growing up and his relationships influence how he changes as a character. Remove Kira Grasdon and Sari from his life and what do you have? A totally different character who lacks the depth and connections of the current version. It isn’t like this is unrealistic either. If you’ve ever been in love, had your heart broken, or even avoided the emotion then you know how powerful a catalyst it can be. That’s a big reason why I don’t cut romance out of my fantasy adventure series. It serves an important purpose for character and story development.
I know I have book writing to do since I lost last week to a school break, but I feel like seeing how this goes. What do you think of romance showing up in non-romantic stories? Do you groan and make fake gagging noises? Do you consider it a part of the characters’ life and that they have more than just the main plot to live for?
Legends of Windemere 
Sigh. I guess there will always be those who dislike the romance angle in a story and those in favor of it. I love a romantic subplot. Romance is part of life and reminds us of a hero(ine)’s soul. On the other hand, I sometimes have trouble when a romance is added to an adaptation of an already published work, especially if those who adapted the work added a character who was not in the original work. But I can be won over if a character is done well.
I was prepared to really hate Tauriel before I saw Desolation of Smaug. But I grew to like her. I realize I’m probably in the minority in this.
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I agree that adding a romance into an adaptation reeks of pandering. Plenty of movies are great without that addition, but it seems they turn up in everything these days. I really had trouble getting behind Tauriel because she seemed so far out of left field. Part of me wondered if her addition was more about making sure each of the 3 movies was long and padded instead of just adding a romance.
I do like when a romance shows up to demonstrate that a hero is also human. Though it does seem that it’s typically a male hero with a non-hero female. That’s one reason I like the Will/Alice romance in Ranger’s Apprentice. They’re on equal footing and she can handle herself.
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I agree about the padding. I also think Tauriel was to add more females to the story. Perhaps Arwen in LOTR worked better because she at least was one of Tolkien’s characters (though she took Glorfindel’s place in one occasion).
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It’s a tough one. The books were written with very few female characters, which may have worked at that time. Nowadays, you have more women interested in the genre, so you need to do something to give them a ‘vessel’ in the film.
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I totally agree, Charles. I think love and romance, when done well, should be the underlying subplot to any book. It develops characters and us readers love a good story. Love and marriage work in different worlds just as much as they work here on Earth. Look at how Star Trek: The Next Generation did it on the small screen. It didn’t always happen but when it did, it was done well. 🙂
Those reader who diss romance/love in science fiction/ fantasy stories are depraving themselves from a key undercurrent of life. Sigh x 2.
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It’s fairly common too. You mention Star Trek: The Next Generation and I totally forgot about that until you said it. That tells me that such a plot line didn’t take away from the overall story and it was at my discretion to even pay attention to it. I think some people simply get annoyed that such a thing ‘interrupts’ the parts that they like.
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This is really curious. I have read lots of reviews on Amazon where the complaint was that the story had no romance, or that there was opportunity for romance and it didn’t happen, so they were disappointed. In my published book, I have a sex scene that is preceded by little romance and a couple reviewers mentioned that they would have liked to have seen more romance leading up to that…even though it would have been out of character for the female protagonist to go that way. In one of the novels I am working on now, a romance is imminent and I’m at a loss. I may have to read some romance novels. Romance was just never my thing, and I can do without it in books.
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It might have to deal with the genre too. Dramas and some historical fiction seem to have a ‘demand’ for romance. Meanwhile, fantasy and more action-based genres have a ‘demand’ for no romance. It might be a situation of a vocal minority though. People who are happy with a product tend to be less publicly critical. At least that’s what I’m getting from it.
Do you not want the romance in the story?
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I don’t. I don’t feel that I’m adept at it. It’s necessary to tell the story though. I feel that I would be more qualified if I read the genre. I’m seeking advice and reading though.
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I haven’t read many romance, which might explain why I get such heat for the times that I use it. I try to work off my instincts with that. I move slower with such scenes, but I do want it to be natural instead of copying the trend.
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I feel like eliminating it entirely would be like an author throwing away a third of his tools. What keeps readers is an emotional attachment to the character. That involves the character’s hopes, passions, and dreams. It makes as much sense as saying we don’t want any fear in our stories.
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Very true. A cast of characters with no interest in romance, relationships, or anything like that can come off as unnatural. It’s like a section of them has been walled off from the reader. Especially if they seem to rail against such things and have no clear reason for it. On the other side of the coin, a romance shouldn’t be shoehorned into a story for the sake of having one.
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Nothing should be shoehorned into a story for the sake of having one. Neither should anything be taken off the table just because. Can you imagine a cast of Vulcans carrying an entire story?
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Yikes. About as exciting as a college lecture on the mating habits of walking sticks.
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I think it is when it is unexpected is when it bothers some people. I remember one year a girlfriend and I wanted to see a movie on V Day with zero romance – we chose a werewolf movie and thought we were safe (we were good with blood and gore – just not kissing!) – then, all of a sudden, an unexpected love scene. Ugh!
It wasn’t that it was so bad – we just hadn’t planned on any romance.
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Good point with movies. I think commercials and trailers are getting increasingly misleading. They’ll hide the romance to catch the action crowd or hide the action to catch the romance crowd. They probably figure they’re safe once they get your money. I vaguely remember a werewolf movie that had a romance subplot out of nowhere. Do you remember the name of it? Think it was trying to take advantage of the Twilight trend.
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I don’t remember the name but it may have been around that time. I think it had Anthony Hopkins in it. It was pretty good (except the romance). Wolfman or something like that
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Oh! Totally different movie than what I was thinking. That was ‘The Wolfman’ remake with Benicio Del Toro. It was okay. I think I remember the ‘from nowhere’ love scene you’re talking about.
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I have two stories going on right now. My Sci-Fi WIP is based on a romantic inclination, though I am unsure how it will culminate at this point. (I haven’t gotten there yet.)
In my Fantasy/Adventure, I have avoided romance to the best of my ability. The main character, The Barbarian, had been raised a slave in the desert. After his rescue, which he had a major part in, he is busy learning from the Wizards, then gets pulled into the quest which leads him to fulfill the prophecy of conquering the Red Griffin (antagonist). He has neither the time nor inclination for romance.
I think I chose this route because I simply do not believe there is such a thing as actual love, in the “till death do us part” frame of reference. This, from my personal experiences.
As for encountering romance in media, regardless of the situation, I’ll just skim until I get back to the “meat” of the story; fast forward to the next part where someone is getting their just desserts.
To each their own. However, I don’t think a book or movie should be harshly criticized if they don’t have any romance, nor if it has been added for sensationalism’s sake. The only criticizing should be whether said romance works or not.
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I have noticed that barbarians seem to be avoided when it comes to romantic subplots. Guess they’re too much of the ‘bonk woman on head’ types. 🙂
You make a good point that personal experiences guide an author’s inclination toward certain subplots. Ones personal opinion and definition on love would certainly decide how such a thing is presented.
I’ve heard a lot of people mention that they skim over the romance of a story or whatever area they don’t like. Do you ever find that doing so causes a bit of confusion in later points in the book or do you gather enough knowledge to have the gist of the subplot?
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On occasion, some part of the plot seems to reference a romantic encounter, but in my genre (horror movies, that is) of choice, one needs only to skip the mushy words, for as soon as the act is engaged, the bad guy ruins their day and makes ours. 🙂
For the most part, no I do not think skimming past the “tender” parts interfere with the story. If I think it’s a bit more than just fodder, I have to start swinging my fingers like a conductor telling them to get a move on and make a point.
But, that’s just me.
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Romance and sex are definitely the sign of approaching doom in horror. Wonder why that is.
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I’m not supposed to have an opinion about this. (No, really. I was told on a Goodreads group’s forum that I, being a male human, have NO RIGHT to an opinion, even a favorable one, about romance subplots in SFF. Even though I said I happen to LIKE such subplots as long as they don’t stray into erotica, and that one of my favorite science fiction novels of all time is also a romantic comedy.) Nevertheless, I’m going to express an opinion: I don’t like romance that’s been shoehorned in to make a story “multi-genre” or something when the romance is obviously just an add-on. As with ANYTHING in a story, if it doesn’t serve the story, it shouldn’t be there. (I’m also against gratuitous car chases and explosions, for whatever that’s worth.) If it’s important to characterization or plot, it shouldn’t be left out.
If I like the characters in a story, I want them to be happy. If being in a romantic relationship with someone is part of what makes them happy, I’m all for it. That doesn’t mean I want to know -every single detail- of what the characters do in private — I don’t want to know that about any of my friends, imaginary or otherwise. 🙂
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Thankfully, you’re allowed to have an opinion here. 😉 I do see people say that they dislike a romance if it doesn’t connect to the main plot. Yet, I think it serves better as a characterization subplot when added to another genre. At least that’s what I use it for and people still complain. Guess fantasy adventure is a hard one to add romantic storylines too.
It’s funny that you mention knowing every detail of a relationship. One thing I’ve learned is that every person has their own limit. Some get upset at making out while others rail against even mentioning that a character is naked. I never show the actual act, but I’ve still had a few people claim that I put ‘erotica’ in. Never even used anything more vulgar than breasts or naked. So I don’t know how an author can tailor a book to appease such a variety of preferences.
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My second book has a romantic sequence but I did not do it to attract anyone. the characters fell in love and what was I to do?
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True. If you ban it then they’ll elope between chapters. Gotta go with the characters. They tend to know best.
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Well said
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Funny you should say that. I wrote a second book like that. 🙂
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Those characters are hard to control aren’t they?
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Tell me about it. I thought I’d buried them after four books but they’re already popping up with a whole new set of scrapes to get into next. 😉 Still, it’s what makes writing so much fun. No amount of planning will contain mine!
Cheers
MTM
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So true. Thanks
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I’m right with you on this. If fiction is too conveniently compartmentalised it fails to ring true. Im not saying that every book should have romance in it but as you rightly say, if we follow Luke Callender for so long and he doesnt fall for anyone it’s unrealistic. And it stunts his development potential and also its just weird. However i also agree that jemmying it in where it was never written to achieve some snog time on screen is a problem. But Tolkein is what it is, a work written in an era when fantasy was still for boys, mainly and women were still considered, by many, as little more than decoration. You either accept that, and make the film as it was written, or find some fantasy works with more women characters in and make a film of those instead.
Cheers
MTM
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It would definitely make Luke appear to be ‘off’ if he showed no interest in a relationship. Though I bet people would be okay with him simply wanting sex from women, which is something I never understood. How is it that heroes can be horndogs, but god forbid they shoot for romance? At least from some people since I do know those who hate the horndog hero mentality.
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I suppose the Tolkein thing sums up our times… Better to reshape a successful ‘franchise’ than strike out with something new and original that fits the zeitgheist neatly.
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That is an odd trend. It seems many pre-existing things are being altered to cater to a more varied audience. Yet there has to be fresh ideas that would fill the same gap. The only thing they’re lacking are name recognition, but even the famous stuff had to start as a new idea back in the day.
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To paraphrase, you can please some of the readers some of the time, but you can’t please all of the readers all of the time. And sometimes it feels like you can’t please any!
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Definitely. Unless . . . don’t think I could afford to give a $100 bill with every purchase. I’m sure I’d still get some complaints for that. 😛
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I’ll just sneak in here to say that I am ALWAYS a sucker for a good romance. (Note the use of ‘good’ here!) Not that I won’t read anything without a romance, just… I honestly can’t think of anything I’ve ever read that DIDN’T have a romance. Hm. I’ll need to think about that. ANYWAY! Probably all of my stories will have romance to some degree, because I am fascinated by love. 😉 But this is a good topic!! Especially since this story I’m writing is my first foray into Fantasy, and I hope that I can make the romance OK for the genre… (Albeit a very YA fantasy.)
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Romance is found in just about everything at some level. Makes it strange when people claim to hate it so much. I don’t think we notice it sometimes too. Romance can work in fantasy. I’m sure you’ll be fine as long as you throw a few dragons and fireballs at the readers. 😉
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