Now that you’ve decided to be an author, I’m sure you have a marvelous idea. Can I hear it? Oh, like Twilight. Not like Twilight? Explain more. So, it’s like Harry Potter? Don’t give me attitude. Oh, like Romance of the Three Kingdoms. You never heard of it? It’s about the unification of . . . get off the window ledge and sit down. All hope is not lost, you big baby. Stop trying to eat your notebooks. Sit and listen while I explain another dark side of writing:
Somebody did it before you.
There’s no way around it since humans have been telling stories for years. Lion King is Hamlet. Anything with a son overthrowing the father can be connected to Zeus and Cronus of Greek Mythology. Our species has been around so long that all basic stories have been used. Key word there, little author, is BASIC. We’re at a point where, as the wise TJ Therien sort of said, it’s about personal expression in art and not about originality since every thought has been thunk. Who is TJ? Go visit his blog and figure it out because I’m not his biographer.
This gives you a lot of influence to work off of and a lot of research that can be done, but it has that nasty dark side: The Fan of Someone Else! You may have met these people that can never be won over. They want you to write exactly like their favorite author because that’s ‘how it should be done’. Your unique flair offends their standards and you should be publicly mauled by a polar bear for your transgressions. Think writing exactly like their favorite author will save you? Ha! Then they accuse you of plagiarism and demand that you be publicly mauled by a grizzly bear for your theft. What I’m trying to say, kid, is that you can’t win everybody over.
That’s the horrible truth that authors have to live with. People will despise what you write because it either doesn’t fit their standards or fits them too well. Half the time the arguments don’t really make sense. I once heard a fan try to explain how Game of Thrones ripped off Harry Potter because they both have dragons. I’ll wait while your brain stops screaming in agony. Back with us? Sorry about that, but you can see how even the slightest similarity can be snatched by a person determined to prove how their favorite book is superior to everything ever written. Time doesn’t even factor into some of these people like, brace yourself brain, a person claiming Romeo & Juilet is a copy of Twilight. Wow. That scream is loud. Think happy, fluffy thoughts and we’ll continue.
You might be asking what you can do as an author to avoid this. Well, you can’t, so stop asking about it. Those that follow the trends will always be dubbed copycats of the popular titles whether they deserve the title or not. Those that stand out in the open will forever be compared to the others and told why they’re an insult to their genre. You simply can’t win over everyone without a movie starring Anthony Hopkins, Robert Downey Jr. Emma Watson, or Morgan Freeman. Even then I’m sure the people who hate stuff to be cool will be an issue.
Let’s face it, kid. As authors, we put our dreams and hearts out there and people were put on this planet to attack. They want something fresh and original while watching or reading the rehashing of an old theme. Guess that’s how it works. Whatever we love is original and fresh. Whatever we hate is cliche, stolen, and stale.
Cheers and good luck, kid. You’re going to need it.
Legends of Windemere 
Thanks for the plug Charles… as always enjoy the humor you inject into the sometimes daunting task of writing…
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Thanks. Thought you’d like the plug. I had to since the idea came from you and it fit really well into the tone of the post.
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Even further, I’ve seen people claim LOTR ripped off Eragon…when Tolkien died 10 years before Paolini was born. Also, the same argument has been made by fans of said author that Pern also ripped off Eragon…again, Pern having been written before Paolini was even born.
Originality is found in ‘how’ a story is told rather than ‘what’ it contains. People forget this all the time.
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I remember those days. I had never wanted to beat someone with a copy of The Hobbit before that day. I lost friends over that level of stupid.
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YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING. On second thought you probably are serious but really, over an opinion
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They were so adamant and rude about their belief. Even when I proved Tolkien came first. They weren’t close friends anyway.
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nice to be warned about knife stabs from critics
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This wasn’t a critic on my stuff thing. This was about someone claiming an older work (Lord of the Rings) stole from a modern work (Eragon). Even in the face of publishing dates and facts, some people maintained this idea.
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ya I know….my mistake for using the word critic; you are showing all the trials that come with publishing, other peoples comments..
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Makes me think the perfect reader is a mime. You can only get their opinion if you pay close attention and they don’t shout.
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Nice work, my friend. It’s funny how this understanding is such a hurdle for some. But it’s an integral understanding to the craft of writing. I’ve heard it said that there are only two plots in the world: 1) stranger enters town; 2.) stranger leaves town. I remember being young and having an idea that I thought was very original, at least, original enough to stand out, then feeling like I ran headlong into a ton of bricks when I read about a novel being published with essentially the same premise as my idea. It was an important understanding for my career, and it’s forced me to be a better and more creative writer.
Keep up the good work and best of luck with the new title!
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That happens to my friend all the time. He comes up with characters and stories that show up months later in a video game or tv show. We tease him about having a spy chip in his head.
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I guess when it all boils down to paper and ink I just write, my style, my way and to hell with following the crowd. Mind you I am not brave enough to self publish and will probably wait a life time to be picked up lol.
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It’s a rough world when comes to writing. You have a great strategy. If you don’t like what you’re writing, it will show.
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Reminds of a conversation I had last night…someone was playing an old favorite on a violin, but with his own original rendition…a person piped up: That’s now how it should be played…good point you made and I’ll use the advice to think happy fluffy thoughts…
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There’s always someone in the crowd that wants the original.
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…and what’s novelty too, just not with their originals. Can’t say anything personally. I loved the Lord of the Rings and didn’t like the orginal interpretation of the film…the arian elves at the battle of Helm just soured the film for me.
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A lot of people, me included, didn’t like the elves showing up at Helm’s Deep. It was unnecessary and took away the fact that humans were being left on their own. No super species of elves or dwarves were stepping up to help, which was one of the points. The elves declared that they were leaving and said the mess was mankind’s fault. Jackson just wanted to show off his pretty elves and armor.
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I totally agree…Jackson is a show off.
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Someone said something similar in my writer’s group years ago. It was discouraging – at the time. I’ve accepted it now…
Ellespeth
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I heard it all the time in college. There were some people that tried so hard to be unique that they made something that was simply bad.
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I have heard many say that they seek out indie authors for the new and fresh approach they have to writing. They feel that the standard formulaic writing has gone stale, boring. Yet, others believe that you are not a successful author if you cannot produce a formulaic piece that a traditional publisher would expect to be a blockbuster. As long as I am able to satisfy an audience, any audience, I am not going to worry about the everybody else who isn’t satisfied.
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Write what you love and people will love it. I’ve received more praise than spite with my book and I’m totally off the reservation with my style. There’s an audience out there for everyone.
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Did that really happen? I mean, did someone really claim that Romeo and Juliet was a copy of Twilight? I don’t know why I’m asking. I’m pretty sure it happened.
In other news, this post has actually motivated me some. That’s one of my biggest concerns with my fantasy novel. How many times has the good versus evil thing been done? I mean, that’s in every myth ever written (and spoken). Ever. And every fantasy novel. And I’m certain my special twist has been done, too, even though I’ve never read it anywhere (in fact, I’m pretty sure that my special twist came from the Book of Enoch and has some elements of the story of Ezekiel’s Wheel). Powerful stuff, Charles.
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Yup. In the comments is another one that I’ve run into. Lord of the Rings copied Eragon. It’s just so stupid.
I keep see the Book of Enoch mentioned today. As for Good vs. Evil, it’s the basis of a lot of stories, but it’s time-tested. I think you can still do it by adding shades of grey into the two sides. The anti-hero and sympathetic villain can come in handy here.
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Yeah, that’s what I’m relying on; the anti-hero. I felt like I was getting too close to Robert Jordan’s work in the Wheel of Time (heavy influence with the troubles of Rand al’Thor and my character Musashi Akira). But… Mine’s kind of a *love story between some deities, and then there are some aliens, and the Elves have some technology, and…yeah…. I have no earthly clue what I’m doing… But I’m sure someone’s going to say, “Hey, this looks like the Wheel of Time” or “This looks like the Sword of Truth” or “This looks like Dragonlance” or “Why is this dude rewriting the The Book of Revelation? He’s going to hell!” or some such… I’m expecting as much, anyway… One thing for certain, I am drawing really, really heavy inspiration from the Lesser Key of Solomon in an appendix I’m creating call “Conspectus of the Greater Nine Keys”…but that’s mostly to help me organize the world and whatnot (and it’s kinda based on the CIA World Factbook, too, so there’s that)…
Okay, I’ll shutup now. This is post really does help, though. And the Book of Enoch, I don’t know what it is, but it’s such a fantastical work, I’m not surprised it’s being mentioned today. I’m surprised it’s not like a standard or something.
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Don’t forget the Harry Potter fans that think Rowling invented magic or, worse, the Twilight fans that think Meyers invented romance. Probably should buy a few stress balls to hurl at them.
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…My vote is on bricks.
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That could work too. Or get a wash towel, ball it up, and wet it. Put it in the freezer and . . . apparently, I’m a sick man.
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There’s nothing wrong with being sick. At least, I don’t think there is.
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As long as one isn’t contagious, it’s all good.
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Reblogged this on The Arkside of Thought by Sahm King and commented:
A must read for authors worried about whether or not their work is unoriginal. Seriously. Read it. NOW!
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I’m updating “Dune” with penguins. It can’t miss. 😉
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Everything is better with penguins. Especially talking talking penguins.
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I know this is an older post, so I’m going to ignore the obvious sentence about a certain movie that I’ve ranted about on one of your other posts.
Originality is something I do strive for and it does annoy me when people only want what’s safe and familiar. It really ticks me off when people excuse such laziness in creativity. My works certainly aren’t for everyone and I learned to accept that.
Speaking of unoriginal things, I had this list on my film review blog and I know you can guess two of the characters on this article. https://iridiumeye.wordpress.com/2021/04/06/top-7-characters-that-fans-are-reluctant-to-call-blatant-ripoffs/
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Interesting list. I think we’ve debated a few. Although, I find it hard to do anime/manga copying each other. They do homages a lot over there and it’s accepted in a way that I think it’s cultural. They see it as flattery especially since they admit to the copy.
Funny thing with Thanos and Darkseid is that Starlin fully admits that Marvel told him to do the copy. Yet, modern fans act like it’s a coincidence.
The thing with originality that I worry about is that the quest for it demonizes influenced work. A creator who’s inspired by someone and takes some of what they see with their own twist get tossed into the trash regardless of their honesty or new take. Even being unaware of a similar work isn’t accepted as an excuse. It reaches a point where everyone can be accused of unoriginality to some extent.
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Thanks. Two of my picks weren’t surprising from previous conversations. I have no issues with anime/manga characters homaging each other, but K9999 was an example that went too far. It’s even been said that he hasn’t been seen since KOF 2002 in fear of being sued.
I know, right? It’s weird because I’ve known about both characters since my childhood, but I never made the connection until recently. Thanos had the advantage of showing up in the movies first. The act of this being a coincidence by some fans is infuriating and that mindset is also something I noticed when I’ve seen some people try to explain away (poorly) about Scar.
You think so? Don’t get me wrong, I certainly have my own inspirations and I can see inspirations in the media I like, but I don’t see that demonization as much. Good call with someone not knowing not being an excuse in this Google-fueled timeline we’re in. The thing is I don’t want to overdo it when it comes to calling something a rip-off. Sometimes in my case of me bashing The Lion King’s multiple instances with the story and one musical example, Inception, or more recently Frozen plagiarizing the teaser trailer with “The Snowman” short REALLY doesn’t help.
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That’s the thing with K9999. It seems like it was a big homage, but it backfired primarily with foreign audiences. They probably retired him to retain foreign sales.
Thanos and Scar have a big difference. The creator fully admits Thanos was based off Darkseid. So, you have the final say there. Scar has never been confirmed as a steal, so it remains conjecture until one can fully prove it. That’s why fans will stick with him, especially since many haven’t seen the connected works. Both stories basically boil down to Macbeth (or Hamlet?) anyway.
I think we do go too far with the demonizing. We act like every instance is done with malicious intent. Not sure where Inception and Frozen come info it. I’ve never heard of The Snowman, which introduces another aspect. Creators aren’t omniscient, so they could very well come up with ideas that are similar to others without seeing them. It happens throughout history. Dragons and vampiric beings exist in multiple cultures that never met. I remember when two asteroid and two volcano movies came out at the same time from different studios. Coincidences happen more often than we think, but people nowadays attack for the slightest misstep.
Somethings I just realized too. Some of these stories all stem from public domain, which means they’re all copying the same thing. Also, you have people in different cultures doing the homages. This brings in different sets of sensitivities, traditions, and rights understandings.
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Could be. Of course, Tetsuo or the Akira movie isn’t unknown to Western audiences, but I think it could’ve affected their domestic sales back in Japan.
True about Thanos with Marvel actually admitting it and Darkseid did have mainstream exposure even before the Snyder cut of Justice League. The similarities between Claw and Scar speak for themselves and the other people I know who’ve seen Kimba instantly noticed that while watching that 60s anime. Since I was made fun of for liking some bands that supposedly ripped off others (La Dispute being accused of stealing mewithoutYou’s style is bogus), I have been very tempted to insult and shame Lion King fans for liking a clone of an anime villain as a kind of indirect payback for what I’ve been through. It’s like “Oh, if they’re allowed to shame me, then I’m allowed to shame others for what they like.”, if that makes sense. Can’t you tell I have a bunch of internalized frustration? There are some differences like how Claw has one eye, isn’t related to the main characters and doesn’t kill the father lion (even though he still takes over the kingdom after the fact), but I can’t see how anyone would think Disney wouldn’t know about that character much less Osamu Tezuka’s work. Even then, The Lion King doesn’t follow the entirety of Macbeth and Hamlet anyway given how those stories turned out. Then again, I did hear that William Shakespeare may have stolen from other people, but that’s a story for another day.
Interesting. Maybe I’m saying that I’m not seeing it as much or maybe people aren’t going far enough with the demonization when it’s deserved. If you’re curious about the Snowman/Frozen issue, it’s not about the main movie, but the teaser trailer they made. Disney actually paid an undisclosed settlement amount to the creators of that short film. Here’s an article about that issue if you’re curious: https://dbmoviesblog.com/2019/12/10/too-much-let-it-go-and-not-enough-im-sorry-disneys-frozen-2013-teaser-trailer-is-the-definition-of-plagiarism-on-screen/
I see. Some kind of stories do come from public domain like fairy tales or those ancient epics. However, where is the line drawn with those examples and others especially if a work isn’t public domain?
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I still think it’s entirely possible that they didn’t really know about ‘Kimba’. I’ve never seen it and you may be the only person I know who has. Think we’ve gone over that one a bunch though.
Shakespeare didn’t actually steal ideas, but people enjoy saying it. He took stories that average people couldn’t see because they were written in older languages. Then, he changed things around to make them his own and presented it to your average person. This is retelling of stories, which has been going on for centuries. I think it’s really only in modern times that we make a big deal out of this and mistake it for full plaigarism.
The thing with public domain is that you can’t really draw a line. A creator can copywrite their version of a public domain idea, so you can’t take anything more than the basic plot. This is why only Disney can use a red-haired mermaid named Ariel. They don’t really own the ‘Little Mermaid’ story, but that iteration of it. If the work isn’t public domain then it boils down to how much was taken. Legally, names and general scenes have to be replaced. The central plot and concepts can remain because most of them are universal. No matter how much you change about ‘Lion King’ or ‘Kimba’, it’s about a son avenging his father after being tricked. As you said, the movie doesn’t follow the Shakespeare stuff exactly, which is how variations are able to come about. That’s how many authors create newer works.
If you make the line too rigid then you kill off potential stories entirely. Nobody will want to go anywhere near the subject matter, so you get stagnation with only a handful of authors/companies producing works. Also, the line is personal because everybody has their own exposure levels. One person will be screaming plagiarism because they’ve seen many similar stories while another thinks it’s fresh because it’s either their first or an earlier exposure. It doesn’t help to direct #2 to the originals either because they might not like the author’s style, which changes from version to version. This is why I’m always twitchy about the demand for originality and the attacks on what people think are blatant rip-offs. It can lead to most authors having to quit because everything has been done.
The whole Disney paid a settlement thing is weird. They will pay out a sum just to end things regardless of them being at fault or not. Most big companies will see the settlement as a cheaper and shorter path than fighting it. Yet, people see it as an act of guilt when it’s usually an act of wealthy irritation.
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Makes sense especially since it isn’t exactly the easiest to see unless one rents the DVDs on Netflix. It used to be on Hulu until a few years ago. I might be the only person you know who has seen things from that anime series. Okay, I wasn’t too sure. I felt like I had to know things from what I saw and with researching that plagiarism controversy. I’m also doing my best not to repeat talking points from that previous conversation, but I really want to school people who give Disney the benefit of the doubt.
It was something I heard and I apologize for not knowing about any specific examples. Sometimes I’m not surprised given the things I found out about other stories or even inventions to name a few. Copyright wouldn’t have been an issue during Shakespeare’s time.
Good point with that Little Mermaid example. Even I’ve done an adaptation of a public domain work with a novella using basic plot elements, but revamping the story. I do credit the original writer and mention it was based on that particular story. Yes, Kimba does avenge his father and reclaim the throne, but there’s also a lot more to it given how there are TV series and movies in that field much less being based on a multi-volume manga. What does tick me off is the rampant denial or people making excuses for Disney like they’re somehow immaculate. That or these same people who complain about characters like Kayley from Quest for Camelot looking too much like Belle (for example) wouldn’t dare say that about characters from The Lion King or Atlantis, so I feel a need to call them out on their hypocrisy and fallacies if I have to while doing everything I can to make them feel bad about their fandom if worse comes to worst.
It is tough to get people to check out the “originals”. Just look at Disney’s adaptations of fairy tales and older stories versus the original versions or at the very least older adaptations in film, TV, books, etc. It’s like they don’t want to see the older version or any other version out there. Have you ever felt like quitting because of that kind of pressure? I hope you haven’t.
That is weird, but I think someone knew about that example. Strange how that example got settlement money while others didn’t.
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And that’s just today. Way back when, you’d need to find it on VHS at the library or store.
It is tough to find a balance with Disney. They do steal a lot or at least buy franchises then revamp. So, they are rather creatively bankrupt. The reason so many defend them is due to nostalgia too. Most grew up with Disney movies and cartoons, so there’s an engrained loyalty to the brand. This results in Disney being the first exposure to story types too. This makes it appear that they’re more original than they really are.
Never felt like quitting over that. Lack of sales and general depression are the harder hitters to the ego.
I just looked at the settlement. It was about timing. They kept fighting it and would have done it again. The only problem is that they were about to announce Frozen 2, so they needed this issue to go away fast. The other lawsuits probably didn’t have that benefit.
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Yup. I certainly remember those days.
Right. I used to love a lot of Disney stuff before I had a period of just watching anime in my teens and eventually being very jaded with movies much less life in general. They really don’t have many original screenplays in their Animated Canon. Nostalgia is sadly a big factor as a part of this kind of branding. It also made me jealous seeing people older than me including those old enough to be my parents or grandparents wearing Disney merch, yet they never got made fun of, but my interests were prone to be insulted by others and I HATE that double standard. I’d be lying if I said Disney’s versions weren’t the first versions I saw. Sometimes I get surprised with how good other adaptations are of the same story like the Chinese Mulan: Rise of a Warrior live action remake for example.
That’s good. I hear you right there with lack of sales as well as depression.
I didn’t think about the Frozen 2 release being a factor. Wow, that makes so much sense. Maybe they were getting so much flack with the negative reviews of their other movies, but I could be wrong.
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