Etrigan the Demon from DC Comics
Traditionally, demons are the bad guys. The monsters and eaters of human. There has been a slight change with characters like Inuyasha and Etrigan where circumstances have made the demon a hero. Typically, this is done with half-breeds and those that are bound to a heroic human. I’m talking fictional literary demon and not the religious type of demon.
Demons turn up a few times in Legends of Windemere: Prodigy of Rainbow Tower. Not just the Hellfire Elf, but several different types. You get a sense of demon society through one of them. That’s something came out randomly that I kept. Demons are always these monstrous, evil beings with nothing really behind them. You get the occasional world-domination or birth my child demons, but most of them are mindless creatures of destruction. Here the demons have a society that I plan on exploring as my various series progress. Will I make a demonic hero? I have a few planned including one or two that are full-blooded demons that make the conscious decision to fight for good. Demons can have honor too.
This has led to me getting easily bored with demons in stories. I don’t like the pure evil creature path that they’re given. It lacks depth and means they’re only useful for sudden fights or possession scenes. Only so much you can do with an exorcism scene. I hate to say that I don’t like demons in stories. Probably closer to say that I want them to get more depth and versatility. After all, I’ve read and seen stories where angels are the bad guys and fall from grace. Why can’t a demon rise to heroism?
So, what do you look for in your fictional demons? If you don’t typically read such books, what would you want to see when such creatures are used?
Legends of Windemere: Prodigy of Rainbow Tower Coming July 31st!!!!
Legends of Windemere 
I always liked Etrigan–I had a friend of mine who was running a DC Heroes tabletop rollplaying game once, and I told him him if he’d let me run Etrigan I’d improve all of my dialog in iambic pentameter. (He didn’t take me up on it, I suspect because he knew I could do it.)
I also love C S Lewis’ Screwtape Letters–I think that he made the motivation and sociology of demons very real to life. Much of the Outsiders in my work is based on Lewis’ concepts.
LikeLike
He should have accepted that challenge because that would have been a lot of fun. Nothing wrong with that kind of improv.
I never heard of the Screwtape Letters. Looking at the summary, it sounds like an excellent example of demons not being shown as pure, mindless monsters.
LikeLike
I am working with ‘one step down’ from demons – Nephilim and their offspiring, the Anakim. In my debut novel, I’ve tried to give them credible motivation for their campaign to corrupt mankind and seize all souls for themselves. However, mine are (semi) pseudo-scientific motivations rather than religious.
I’d never mentioned a society of demons, instead picturing them all crowded together beneath the Earth, but there would have to be some sort of heirarchical structure after all this time, wouldn’t there? Certainly food for thought.
LikeLike
My demons aren’t scientific or religious. Working in fantasy where our religions don’t exist, I went with a biological species that were named demons. They are beings of magic that can be summoned and controlled if you’re strong enough. They’re also in a pocket dimension from the rest of the world. So, a demon in the main world tends to go through odd changes if there for too long. It gets touched on in the second book when the heroes learn more about demon society. For example, demons marry.
LikeLike
Cool. It skirts along the edge of what we already expect of demons, but with a refreshing twist. I am adding your books to my WTR list.
LikeLike
Thanks. I won’t get to really explore the demons until a later series when one steps into the role of hero. I’m fine-tuning it and need other Windemere events to happen first.
LikeLike
I’ve never really come across good demons in books apart from Etrigen. There was one in the TV show Charmed where the character Balthazar converted from demon to his human form Cole (the actor who played Doom in Fantastic Four) but he never remained good for long and always went back to his evil ways.
LikeLike
Ah, Cole. I remember my friends going on about him.
Manga and anime do the heroic demon or half-demon a lot. Usually they’re summoned or bound to a human, so they’re forced to do good. Eventually, they either turn on their master or find that they enjoy doing good. For example, Inuyasha is a half-breed and Naruto has a demon in him.
LikeLike
Well Charles you did it again and got me thinking before I finish my morning coffee… first, could a demon be heroic… yes in the same way an anti-paladan could perform a good deed, if the motives were totally selfish and self serving and like the anti-paladan the demon that crosses that line too many times (and once may be too many times) would result in the loss of their powers… Demons are after all servents of a higher master.
LikeLike
What about a world where demons aren’t servants of a higher master? They could just be a group of creatures that tend to be evil and live in a hellish world. None of that fallen angel stuff. In that scenario, their powers wouldn’t be lost, but might be held back or a detriment to their heroic path.
LikeLike
well the one problem I see with them not being servents is who then does the Dieties’ dirtywork (Devils and Gods) and even in D&D there was a definite heirachy… even the major Gods were subject to class… Arch and Demi etc… just saying orders normally filter from the top down … the familiar being the lesser form of demon and a servent of the spellcaster… Even if demons were given liberties they would have to serve something for the society to work… and it’s a good thing Windemere isn’t in Texas… I hear they have a ban on Demon Marriage…
LikeLike
Deities can have agents in Windemere, but they are more of a backseat to history. They can influence only so much because of their rules. There is a hierarchy, but the demons aren’t involved in that. I’m not sure what you mean by them having to serve something for the society to work. The demons worship a few gods like the other beings of Windemere.
LikeLike
Yes I do apologize, I do get carried away… I am going a lot by D&D which had a patheon of gods and devils that represented individual races includint dragons and trolls, Dragons for example had a dozen in their pantheon… it will be interesting how you make the demon a worshiper but not a servent… but I do trust in your skill as a story teller…
LikeLike
The pantheon of Windemere is rather strange. It’s one pantheon for the world due to a terrible incident that kill many of the original gods. The survivors combined forces to survive and have been slowly choosing mortals to ascend to godhood over the centuries.
So with the demon, it would work be him legitimately praying to a dark god. The actual demon god is currently asleep after sacrificing his energy to stop a rampaging demon. He didn’t like the idea, but the other zodiac gods forced his hand.
LikeLike
I am speaking strictly outside of the universe you created… there must be some sort of government or rule over demons, there would have to be some servitude to the powers that be unless you are depicting an anarchist state, which would see the rule of which ever demon is the strongest at that moment…such a state would be at constant war with itself… at war armies would be recruited sides would be taken and the service of demons enlisted by the more powerful, if only for protection… conquered demons in such a civil war would become prisoners or slaves… just my logical, or illogical take on it… really nothing to do with your story… rules do little if they are not enforcable… who enforces the rules set upon demons… it all goes back to the old adage “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely… ” Someone or thing lords over the realm of demons and keeps them in line… I am drawing parralels between demons and humans here and may be totally off base in doing so
LikeLike
I’m not even talking my story for the most part. I’m going along the lines of removing the religion and servitude aspect of the demons. The anarchist war between ruling demons sounds like a great idea for a story though.
I guess what I’m trying to figure out is why does there have to be someone that rules over the demons when other fantasy races don’t really have that expectation. Is it in the strict nature of a demon to be a controlled organism? It’s interesting because from what you’re saying, it sounds like there should be a leash on a demon instead of letting it be an independent creature like dragons and trolls.
I’m not even sure how we got on this debate.
LikeLike
Really, I like to see new creatures when I read fantasy; something I’m not already too familiar with.
LikeLike
That’s always a tough one because so much has been created. Monsters can be made with a slapdash mad scientist approach.
Interesting thing about demons is that they aren’t as standard as people think. They’ve become more of a monster class like undead (zombies, skeletons, mummies, etc.) and lycanthropes (were-whatever you got). So it is possible to create a type of demon that you’ve never seen.
All that being said, I agree that it’s great to see new creatures.
LikeLike
What about using the notion of demons for creatures ‘feeding’ on the most common human weaknesses?
LikeLike
Actually, that’s a rather common use of them in fiction. Many times a demon is found as the source of a person’s dark actions. This path tends to put the demons in primal monster role or your standard manipulator.
LikeLike
I really like magical eyes..laser eyes, eyes that can do fantastic things. Eyes are an extension of the brain. If they have wicked eyes you just know they are wicked to the core.
LikeLike
Interesting. Eyes don’t get as much attention in books as they do in movies. Not outside of romance. Maybe that should change for all fantasy species.
LikeLike
Now I’m not a big reader of fantasy however I believe in fleshing out all characters. Far too often in fiction I’ve come across one-dimensional cardboard villians who are only presented as evil. Show me the reason why the demon is how he is. What or who is he protecting or preserving by being so evil. Maybe he has a conscience but is forced to behave in a certain way because of specific factors on the dark side. As I said I’m not a big reader of fantasy and I understand that many uses have been repeated before. I think you can take something that has been used before and put a different twist on it (multi-dimensional) and emerge with a demon that is unique. Destroy the demon anyways but make me feel a little twinge of sadness when he goes 🙂
LikeLike
You’re making me want to write a story where people won’t want the demon to lose or die. 🙂
Fantasy typically uses demons as malicious creatures of destruction. They get thrown in as the big monster threat with no background or motivation necessary. People hear demon and they jump to the ‘vicious monster’ conclusion. It’s still funny how demons are rarely heroic (even then they’re forced), but a lot of people make angels that are so good they want to destroy humanity.
LikeLike
Go ahead and humanize that demon! You hit the nail on the head when when you referred to ‘vicious monster’ without motivation. A little bit of back story about the demon can go a long way.
LikeLike
Might not even be a backstory that one needs at times. A demon can have the simple backstory of being born evil and then events can happen to change their view and heart. It’s really the use and path of a demon that gets to me.
LikeLike
Sounds like you are on to something. I love your character illustrations and interviews by the way.
LikeLike
Thanks. I’m not responsible for the illustrations though. Yahoo Image Search, Jason Pedersen (my cover artist), and Kayla Matt (the cartoon ones).
LikeLike
I want a sexy demon, but maybe that’s just me.
LikeLike
Succubus for the guys and Incubus for the girls. 😉
LikeLike
😀
LikeLike
I know far too many monsters for my own good.
LikeLike
That’s actually what my novel is about – an incubus. Shhh… don’t tell anyone.
LikeLike
Secret is safe with me. We’ll tell people you meant the rock band.
LikeLike
Riiiiiiight. Good plan.
LikeLike
I like the whole line of thought that demons aren’t really evil, they just like chaos. Angels will cause as much destruction to restore order as demons will to create disorder.
LikeLike
Neither side seems to really care about the humans.
LikeLike
Well, we’d probably be like fruit flies to them.
LikeLike
That’s how the tv show Supernatural played it off.
LikeLike
Pingback: Revisit: What Do You Look For in Demons? | Legends of Windemere
Pingback: Revisit: What Do You Look For in a Sequel? | Legends of Windemere