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There’s an old debate in my life that goes back to college. Not sure if other fantasy fans and gamers have this issue. In some Dungeons & Dragons modules (pre-made adventures) and within the monster manual are dinosaurs. So along with dragons, you have Tyrannosaurs Rex and Triceratops running around some regions. There were times where we’d rather have a dragon to deal with than a T-Rex.
Now, the argument that came about in college was that dinosaurs have no place being in a fantasy world. A world that is prehistoric Earth or an alternate Earth where they never died off is one thing. An entirely different world with these creatures is something else entirely. To be honest, I jump sides depending on how my brain is operating and which side seems the most fun to be on at the time. It’s really personal preference if you think about, so lets look at both sides.
NO DINOSAURS
It’s a monster cop out because they’re naturally big and mean. There’s no creativity behind tossing dinosaurs at heroes and nobody really knows what they looked like or acted like. There’s a lot of unknowns about dinosaurs, which makes them a touchy subject. One wrong piece of information and you’ll get reamed because people love dinosaurs. You risk a lot of rage by using them.
The biggest argument that can be used against dinosaurs is that dragons exist. Hear me out on this one. Dragons are alpha predators and they’re infamously territorial. They would eat a lot too and prey on big beasts when they go for meat. Although, I always saw dragons as feeding off the magic in the environment and being slow to digest physical food. Anyway, the two ultra reptiles would get into fights when they got near and that fight would typically go to the dragons. You might be able to get away with the marine dinosaurs like Plesiosaur or Ichthyosaurs, but the land ones would certainly be an issue of space and dragon territory.
YES DINOSAURS
This is a simply argument, but it causes more anger for some reason. In a world of fantasy there are horses, dogs, cats, and all other animals that you find in the real world. There are the same plants and minerals too. Heck, there are humans in these worlds. So, it isn’t hard to consider the idea that there are a few dinosaurs around. They might be rare and in specific areas away from the dragons, but they could very well exist. The chance of them not going extinct is rather high since this isn’t Earth. They might lose a lot of territory to the magical creatures, but they can have a niche in the world. At the very least, the smaller dinosaurs could exist and not throw off a food chain.
So, what do people think of dinosaurs appearing in non-prehistoric-based fiction? Can they be in fantasy?
Legends of Windemere 
I’d never considered it. I guess if they were part of a world I was just being introduced to, I wouldn’t have a problem with them. The idea strikes me as odd, but I don’t see why they’d be off-limits.
Annnnd now I can only think of the synopses of those dino porn novels. Eeeeew…
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Sorry about that. I think if a person fits them in and doesn’t give them dinosaur names it works a little better.
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Seems to me dinosaurs would just add to the fun.
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Nothing says fun like a Stegosaurus battling a Chimera. 🙂
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My only question would be, “Does the ecology of the world make sense?” Are there enough plants to keep the herbivores fed and enough prey animals to keep the predators fed?
As far as dragons and dinosaurs, who says that dragons aren’t dinosaurs? In a world where magic exists, it would make sense that it has always existed, and that it influenced the evolution of life on that world. So, a species of dinosaur that developed the ability to use magic might well be the ancestor of modern dragons. If one type survived unto the present day, than other, less intelligent but still dangerous types might as well. Remember the shark and the celocanth.
A lot of legendary creatures could be explained as off-shoots of animals that became extinct on Earth, wyverns and sea serpents and kraken and basilisks. Larry Niven plays with that concept quite a bit in his Warlock series.
Of course, in my opinion the whole point of fantasy as a genre is to create new worlds to tell stories in, and if you’re worrying about whether or not you’re doing it “right”, you’re doing it wrong.
I think that you can have dinosaurs if you want, and you can have samurai ride them if you like. It’s your flippin’ world.
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I caught a glimpse of this comment when I got a flicker of wifi today and I’ve been aching to respond all day. 🙂
I’ve actually been paying with the dinosaur/dragon connection over the last two years. It’s far a science-fiction story that a friend and I started, but it’s very similar to what you mentioned. The concept was that there are two types of lizard people. One evolved from dragons and the other from dinosaurs. They’ve been at war for centuries with the more aggressive dinosaur ones starting to win. It’s all about a belief in each ones superiority. The main character is a missing link that appears proving they come from the same ancestor. Those that profit from the war are trying to destroy him while those that want peace are trying to use him to prove the two species are connected.
I fully agree with your last two paragraphs too.
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If the ecology makes sense for such creatures to be there. At one time I did have them in my own writing, but that was a decade ago. If I have anything like them, they are heavily modified to fit in the world in some way.
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I used to have them too. Typically, they were in heavy, isolated jungles that went on for ungodly amount of miles. I’ve since dropped them for more exotic critters, but the unsearched lands still exist.
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Okay, have to admit the though of a samurai dinosaur rider sounds pretty darn awesome. I am on the yes camp. Having other normal creatures like dogs, monkeys and what not can mean you can also include dinosaurs. Now the real question, will your dinosaurs have feathers? 😀
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You encounter Jet Li on a T Rex. He kills you so hard that the next two characters that you roll up start out dead.
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Okay, that’s just freaking funny.
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😆
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Possibly. Maybe both versions, but I don’t have any plans for them to appear yet. If they do then I think I’d go with a non-dinosaur name since Latin doesn’t exist. Other animals are a little easier to work with than them on that side for me.
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Feathers… 😀
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Yup, dinosaurs have feathers, it is known. 😆
But yeah that is now the current theory, they even found petrified imprint of some I believe. Not sure Jurassic Park would be the same if the dinos had feathers, lol.
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Go figure! I would have never known this if it weren’t for you. Thanks for keeping it all sorted for me, Bradley! My only reference is Jurassic Park, again, with the lack of dino interest. I’ll try to keep up.
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Heck yeah to dinosaurs. It’s all about engaging the reader and creating a habitat where they can exist. As the creator, the who says they even have to be of the prehistoric variety. If in 2014 it is possible to manufacture a plastic gun from a 3-D printer, I can suspend reality for a dinosaur reconfigured from leftover DNA on some museum dinosaur bones. It’s the writer’s world and anything is possible.
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Excellent point. Now we should find a way to create a living dinosaur with a 3-D printer. 🙂
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Lol… It’ll probably be hungry so I suggest you hit print and run as fast as your legs will carry you.
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Maybe we should make some 3-D steaks first.
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Sounds like a plan.
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I think partly (perhaps mostly) this is a matter of perception. Dragons = fantasy, dinosaurs = SF, and particularly time-travel SF. We all have these things we’re used to, and even in creative matters there are those who aren’t open to any “change” in THE WAY THINGS ARE.
I would ask why dragons couldn’t BE a kind of dinosaur. There are many kinds of dragon besides the fire-breathing flyers, just as there were many kinds of dinosaurs. A large pterosaur could appear dragon-like, for instance. You could call that a dragon. It just wouldn’t breathe fire.
Also, we need to acknowledge the basic ridiculousness of many folkloric creatures. I mean, minotaurs? Griffins? These are just as nonsensical as dinosaurs having survived in a fantasy world.
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I remember a series called Dinotopia, which bordered felt like a fantasy with dinosaurs. Still, it’s also called a science-fiction series. Perception is probably why this debate even exists.
Dragons as a type of dinosaur can work, but I think the issue comes about when the creature is given a dinosaur name. I thought about it and if you write a creature that is described as a T-Rex, but call it a Fulbral or something the it doesn’t seem to cause as many waves.
Also, I’m not sure how to take the ridiculousness part. Some of my best friends are griffins and minotaurs. 😉
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Maybe not a fantasy I’m willing to read. Yet, I’m fairly girly and dinosaurs seem too close to science. I don’t like science. I’d read it if you wrote about them though, but just because its you. 🙂 I can’t be taken seriously today. Sorry. Try it…flash fiction. What does it look like, Charles?
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I think you lost me around the 🙂 Rough plane trip. I always thought dinosaurs and animals were a more interesting part of science. It’s biology, which can be used for other creatures too.
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I have a scattered mind today. Sorry to seem so, well, scattered. I was just thinking I’d give reading a fantasy novel of yours, that included dinosaurs, a shot. I see your point about science.
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If you can make it through the gnomes the you can make it through dinosaurs. 🙂
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😆 Okay!
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I’d have to say “no.” Seems to be a betrayal of the spirit of the genre.
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Now I’m curious what the spirit of fantasy is. I always thought it was a non-Earth realm with magic and the only limit is the author’s imagination.
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Somehow dinosaurs seem inconsistence with the romance of epic fantasy. Probably just me.
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I agree, but I think it also depends on the tone of the world. I couldn’t see them in Middle Earth, Game of Thrones, or most of the fantasy realms that exist. Yet, I could see one hanging around Narnia for some reason with all the talking animals. I know whenever they appeared in a D&D game it made things both exciting and odd. You get used to the magical beasts and the tactics that are used against them with certain strengths and weaknesses. Then a dinosaur appears and it’s nothing but primal violence and aggression.
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Can’t a good Caster create anything?
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Good point. If one explains them as magical creations then it could work for the less cynical readers.
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Yes and might be an exciting surprise for who ever gets a dinosaur unleashed after them
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Dragons, trolls, and goblins are one thing. A rampaging pachycephalosaurus is something else entirely.
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Ooh, I get to vote? Yes. 🙂
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Straight to the point. Love it.
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I’m in the ‘yes’ dino camp – so long as they make sense within the framework of the world, I’m game!
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I seeing a common theme. 🙂
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I read to be entertained – I’m pretty sure a fantastical beast that happens to resemble our earth dinos can be fairly entertaining, with the right writer! 🙂
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I agree. One thing I do wish is that it wasn’t always a T-Rex. So many other odd dinosaurs out there.
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I posed this very question to my troop of warm-blooded lizard men and women, all of whom are designed off various types of reptiles, including dinosaurs and dragons.
Apparently the answer was “yes”. Well … I lie a bit there, first it was “duh!”, then the “yes”.
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Interesting. I wonder what Charles Darwin would think of the existence of lizard people.
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Hmm … Is this before or after he asked how he got on this strange planet?
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After he asked, but before he learned how to get back home.
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That’s good. If he’d asked about getting back then the answer is: “There is no going back, you have reached the other side of the galaxy and are centuries into the future.”
I think Darwin would be most interested in how the various sentient species evolved from a common ancestor. But I think the giant shape-shifting insect might fascinate him more. Providing he didn’t have a heart attack first.
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I’d have to agree with him on the shape-shifting insect. Enough issues with the one form varieties.
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Hmmm … I’m not a huge fan of dinosaurs in fantasy — and, like you said, it’s because of the existence of dragons. I’d say a magical fire-breathing dragon beats a dinosaur every time. Maybe like if a sorcerer found some dino bones and went to town with necromancy … but other than that, not a huge fantasy dino fan.
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It’s looking like they’re an acquired taste. I think dragons also have an advantage because they don’t have a specified size. You can only make a T-Rex so big before it’s ‘unrealistic’. The dragons can be enormous and still be believable.
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I say yes! I wrote what I thought was a fantasy book. But I’d been knocking about the internet long enough to know that there was no point in my attempting to write books about dragons and elves and dwarves and things. All that would happen, I knew, is that I’d be deluged with e-mails from people who thought they knew more about dragons and elves and dwarves and things than I did, telling me I’d got it wrong. So I wrote a fantasy in a parallel reality with my own made up species. But there are the same animals as we have, humans, too, just a lot of other species on the same level as humans. I wouldn’t hesitate to stick dino’s into the mix. I just wish I’d thought about it.
Wow yes and what about spinosaurus/dragon face off?! Mmm! And they have dinos in porn, right?
Cheers
MTM
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I hate to admit that I know about the existence of the dino porn. Terrifying genre.
As someone who uses the dwarves, elves, and dragons, I haven’t received any real slack about how I use them. I get the ‘cliche’ complaints as usual, but I’m way over that. It is funny when people are dragons since there’s so much variety in them.
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Yeh, I think that’s true, although I guess when I started out, I was a bit timid and hadn’t cottoned on. I had a bit of a don’t-give-them-a-reason-to-slam-you mentality back then. I don’t give a sod these days. 😉
Cheers
MTM
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I never considered it when I started. So now I’m forming the thicker skin.
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😉 I guess it comes with the territory.
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A necessary adaptation.
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And now here I am beta reading a fantasy book which has what are, quite clearly, dinosaurs in it. Giant things with long necks… Argentinosaurus anyone? 😉
Coincidence!
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That’s funny. I’m guessing dinosaurs show up more often than people realize.
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It has a zomby in it too, unreal.
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Aaargh grocer’s apostrophe on dinos. 😦
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I always liked the idea of them having a niche in a fantasy world. When I think of old sword and sorcery pulp stories, such as Conan and sometimes Tarzan, dinosaurs or similar giant reptilian beasts were common.
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Good point. There is a ‘history’ of dinosaurs showing up in fantasy worlds even if it’s a secluded island somewhere. Guess it makes sense considering it isn’t Earth, so the asteroid and change in environment never happened.
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