Conan the Barbarian looking his best
It’s interesting when reading a fantasy book and there are Earth groups or a variation in there. Most people that thrive on these books don’t think twice. Others seem to get confused or take offense. For example, Luke Callindor’s dog, Stiletto, would be a German Shepherd on Earth. Problem is that there’s no Germany in Windemere, so he’s a Noble Shepherd there. I have witnessed some confusion and annoyance at this. This is relatively minor, but I say a lot of people get irritated by an author taking something from Earth and altering it for a fantasy world.
Let me use the biggest example from my own works. Everyone thinks raging, idiotic warrior then they hear barbarian. I didn’t go that route. I went for a wild warrior with control over a primal rage, but they are wise and smart. There is thinking before the bashing and a code of honor that keeps them from becoming muscular cannon fodder characters. This seems to throw people off. Even worse than me having a group of people called gypsies because I stuck to a lot of the tradition with them. So, why is it that going so far off a real or beloved idea gets so much heat?
I honestly have no answer to this. I chalk it up to people having preconceived notions and not letting them go for fiction. Many will take a twist as refreshing while others will take it as affront to history. It’s a mentality that I don’t get because I let most of my thoughts go. I save my rage for plot holes and plagiarism.
Small post, but this is something that came to mind. Is it really so wrong to take something from reality and turn it into something else for fiction?
Legends of Windemere 
Aye Charles. You get hate mail over “noble” shepherd? People need a hobby other than getting angry over silly things.
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Just something confused on the term. It was more amusing than aggravating. Never thought it would be an issue.
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I actually like the name noble shepherd for renaming the breed. Personally I think it is fine for the most part. It doesn’t make sense to call it a German shepherd as you pointed out.
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Some of the knit picks get comical, but I can see the point of some. It’s all personal taste, which is why you’ll never find a perfect book.
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I’ve never really given this aspect of my story much thought. I know I wouldn’t just stick a germen shepherd into my story as that, I would probably have described it as a breed of dog and describe a unique characteristic and let the reader infer from that… I have a tendency for the generic,.. also I am far more concerned Tolkien would roll in his grave to be concerned whether people want to knit pick. For simplicity in my story I am using imperial Measure to simplify things including passage of time… does it fit in the context of my story… no, but I don’t want to have to write a dictionary and a bunch of appendices to explain everything.
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Measurements of time and distance always seem to hit real world examples. I’ve read books where the author tries to make their own systems and it gets confusing. Is a yulkryt a long distance or short distance?
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I am similarly outraged by non-real, physically impossible characters and situations. This approach saves me a lot of time – especially when viewing movies. Once I see a hole in the plot or anachronism, or un-real fantasy situation, I stop watching or reading. Tolkien is quite “real” to me. That’s why he is so good.
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I give a lot of leeway with fantasy because I figure it’s not Earth, so technology can be around. Tolkien is great because he makes his world very close to our world. I think that’s why he connects to more people than the high magic ones like mine.
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The laws of physics are universal. “Human” nature is approximately so. I always thought the trick in science fiction is to throw in tons of concrete detail, to root the experience, so that the jump into fantasy is believable.
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This is why I’m not very good at science fiction because I use magic to do a lot of anti-physics stuff.
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Some of that anti-physics stuff can result in constipation.
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That’s why fantasy world priests know healing spells. 😉
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Essence of fiction, taking the familiar and giving it something different. Bummer that people are so small. I like Noble shepherd
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I’ve been thinking and I’m sure I have issues with certain things too. There might be that small thing that one can’t step away from due to a personal preference. It’s amazing what the mind does with the fantasy genre.
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People need a frame of reference, so I see nothing wrong with taking something from our world and including it. That’s the beauty of fiction. However, if someone wrote a science fiction story, which takes place on a planet in another galaxy, and yet everyone speaks English, I would find that noticeable if the author didn’t explain that they’re actually “talking” in another language.
Another great thing about fiction is the fun of tweaking tropes. I love your wise barbarians. It’s sad that someone would complain about that.
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Languages is a tough one in fiction. It feels strange explaining that they’re speaking another language because it’s rough to fit in without it coming off like an author’s aside. I think many authors hope readers take it as a given.
I’m hoping the barbarians get a lot of thumbs up when the book comes out in February.
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Isn’t fiction, by definition, turning reality into something else? I don’t think it’s wrong, I think you’re just doing it in ways that go against the *generally accepted* ways of twisting reality. People reading fantasy have a preconceived notion of what the fantasy “reality” is, they already know what twists to expect. If you change that, it will throw people off, yes. But that isn’t a bad thing, in my mind. People *need* more of their preconceptions challenged. We tend to get far too complacent with them.
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Funny how there are ‘generally accepted’ ways of fantasy, but I guess they’re needed to define the genre. Otherwise you get literary anarchy.
You’re bound to lose some people with a twist. I’m seeing that some readers are simply unwilling to give up some preconceived notions while others are tossed aside with ease.
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I think the more it happens the more acceptable it will become. Because Tolkien essentially created the genre, there is a very narrow idea of what it should contain, generally speaking. Large, lumbering characters are slow and stupid. When you make large lumbering characters smart, it throws people for a loop, and sometimes they don’t like having to rethink their prejudices. Not just as it relates to fantasy novels, but as it relates to life, where the large, lumbering kids are likewise viewed as slow and stupid.
That’s something I’ve had to remember. Fiction is never just fiction, in some way it’s a reflection of how we see the world, just put in different terms. So when you challenge someone’s preconceptions in a book, you’re really challenging their preconceptions in life.
IMO.
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Definitely. The funny thing about barbarians is they’re supposed to be the epitome of stupid warrior. I’ve read some of the original Conan stories. He’s compared to a panther instead of a bear because he’s powerful and agile. He’s also rather cunning even though he resorts to violence. I think I aimed for that kind of thought process and first then it emerged as a wise warrior when a barbarian finally appeared.
Good point too. We all have our own lens that we view both the world around us and the fiction we dive into.
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When you said “taking something real and turning it into fiction” reminds me of GULLIVER’S TRAVELS. Therefore, NO, I don’t think it is wrong.
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One of these days I should read that book. I know the kid-friendly version and that’s it.
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My books are set in a world that looks like ours, but is twisted into something very different just under the surface. You might say that I took the entire planet Earth and imported it into a fantasy world. My question about Luke’s dog is, are there sheep in Windemere? If so, then it makes sense that someone would breed dogs to shepherd them.
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That’s a great tactic when you want to work with Earth and not Earth. I tried something like that, but I kept twisting it too much with magic and aliens. One of the reasons I merged everything into Windemere.
There are sheep. Also, I’ve always thought German Shepherds had a noble look to them. Fingers are still crossed that I don’t anger a bunch of Conan fans with my barbarians.
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I think a certain amount of chillin’ should take place when a twist is involved. I know how people felt when the movie The Sixth Sense came out. They were all over the place with that movie. I heard there were gasps in the audience when the final reveal took place. And much of that happened because the audience had a particular paradigm they had in mind that needed fulfilling. That’s why the movie killed everyone in their seat and made them come back for a second viewing. The twist is an exercise in patience, and if handled properly will lead to great rewards!
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Funny that you mention that movie. It seemed to set such a standard for Shaymalan. People expected the shocking twist, so they were annoyed if it wasn’t shocking enough. Yet, people were ready for it, which meant there was very little chance of him succeeding.
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Absolutely. I feel for the guy. He made an incredible movie and everyone always expects the same thrill in the next movie. Unfortunately, it hasn’t panned out for him that way, but he’s still shoring up the financing for his projects–and we’re, what? 12 years after he directed it? He’s still having quite a nice run. BTW, every see The Village or Signs? I love those movies. Even if the critics pan them I think they’re inventive and filled with original ideas. Same as Lady in the Water. But that’s another discussion!
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I liked Signs, but I never saw The Village. I heared The Last Airbender did terrible and might have killed his career.
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I give Shyamalan credit in that he keeps returning despite his critics. Even if I can be overly harsh about his more recent films, I always find at least one good thing in them. The Last Airbender was a huge mistake, and it really should have been given to another director entirely.
After Earth is another attempt. There are many issues wrong with this film, but it does try. Sometimes I wonder how much studio interference he faces. There are several movies, especially in the last ten years, that seem to have this problem. A director may have a vision, or the screenwriter does too, and before the film can be completed the studio just ‘has’ intervene. Executives may run movie companies, but often they know little about the actual creative process.
One good example of studio interference:
The Golden Compass. This film had so much interference by the studio that its ending was cut short compared to the book. At the time, the studio had the grand idea of “putting the cut footage (which was in the trailer, by the way) at the beginning of the second film” before the first film’s release. They assumed it would be a hit warranting continuation. It is now 2013, and there’s still no sequel.
Also, the original voice actor for Iorek Byrnison (the polar bear) was not Ian McKellen. The studio brought him in after the original voice actor completed the recording. In one trailer, the original actor’s voice remains. It was, honestly, a better voice but the studio wanted to attach a major star. Ever since, I’ve not seen that actor’s name appear anywhere in film.
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I remember the Golden Compass incident. They really thought they had a winner there, but people don’t like that level of cliffhanger if they have to wait for very long. It also came off a little forced. As for sequels, (I just looked it up) they are not planning anything for the foreseeable future. They would have to restart.
I remember there being a big uproar about the atheist tone of the movie too.
Never thought of the interference with Shyamalan. I always believed him proving his ability to pull a good plot twist would have protected him from such things. Though, there’s no excuse for Last Airbender on all accounts. It sucks that he’s taking all of the blame. It had a pre-existing story and it mucked it up.
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Funny that people should have such expectations in the fantasy genre. 🙂 I’ve seen wise & smart barbarians in bestselling books by very popular authors, who pulled it off nicely.
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They’re more common than people realize. I’m thinking the stupid barbarian came from the original Conan movie.
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Nope, it’s not. They are simply to attached to their own reality to suspend belief and enjoy the writing.
They are not the droids you are searching for. 😉
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Definitely. Those do look like the droids a friend was looking for. I’m in customs. Do you have any illegal fruits and vegetables on your person?
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Not on my person, no.
But I have smuggled Idaho potatoes through the checkpoint over Donner Pass in a car trunk.
In my defense I was a kid, they were in my parents trunk, and they were my grandpa’s potatoes and we weren’t giving them up to the man.
We intended to eat those potatoes, cause they were better than anything else we had here in CA.
Why? Because my Grandpa grew them.
I may or may not have returned from Tijuana with amoxicillin in the early 2000’s. Probably not.
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The dark truth of the underground potato smuggling ring.
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Yup, and Big Gubment!
Trying to take away our potatoes that had no infestation. As if those trucks rolling by didn’t also have Idaho potatoes on board. LoL.
We did our own agricultural inspection and were happy with that, hehe.
We are a buncha rebels around here! 😉
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Fight the good fight! 😀
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