I’ve already accomplished 5 of my 7 weekly goals. One of the two remaining is nearly impossible to do and I shouldn’t have listed it anyway. The other remaining one is waiting for the weekend. This is strange for me because it’s been so long since I finished a chapter early. Guess I hit my stride and was in the zone. Either that or I’ve only written crap this week. The night time writing is helping though.
Today I’m going to try to finish outlining Curse of the Dark Wind and then see how time I have left. Maybe I’ll write another chapter section or maybe I’ll attack Slumber Wars. Feels nice to be ahead for once. I shouldn’t get used to it and simply enjoy the feeling while it lasts.
Brings me to my question: There is a name that I keep wanting to use. I’ve already used it in Legends of Windemere, but I keep wanting to use it again. Sometimes for side characters and other times for main characters. The characters are not connected to each other (yet?), but I keep coming back to this name. In a way, I guess it turns this name into Windemere’s version of John. So-
Is it a bad idea to use the same first name for multiple characters across multiple series?
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About Charles Yallowitz
Charles E. Yallowitz was born, raised, and educated in New York. Then he spent a few years in Florida, realized his fear of alligators, and moved back to the Empire State. When he isn't working hard on his epic fantasy stories, Charles can be found cooking or going on whatever adventure his son has planned for the day. 'Legends of Windemere' is his first series, but it certainly won't be his last.
Legends of Windemere 
The best answer is: it depends. Readers might wonder if you meant that previous character or if you’re trying to be sneaky about something, etc. I guess you could have a line where someone comments about the popularity of that name to justify its use again. Probably also depends on how prominent the character with that name before was in the book before. Use your best judgement.
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In Legends of Windemere the character is a minor that appears in 3-4 books. Looking at it now, I had the name slated for various significant others of heroes. That would probably be overdoing.
Ever notice how in books, you rarely have more than one John or Michael in a series? It’s like every literary world has one of each name.
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Probably because while those literary world’s themselves are large, our view of them is extremely narrow. Could be interesting to write a story with a few people of the same name. Would be tough to keep it straight for readers though.
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That’s where the real problem comes in. I went to school with so many multiple names that it is a silly quirk of writing to never see it. The only clear way to do it is change the spelling of the names or add a surname initial. It’d still be messy. Glad I’m in fantasy where you can toss letters together for names and it’s legal.
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There is a saying in music that you might apply to this situation. “Same song, two records = danger.” Some artists do it anyway, and some pull it off, but you should be careful like the previous comment said.
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Good point. I might be able to get away with the name 2 times. 3 if one character is named after one that other 2 that dies.
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That’s a good idea. Then you can create a sort of ‘legacy’ character.
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I don’t think the first one is going to be potent enough to carry a legacy, but we’ll see.
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I agree with Jae and Johnny. Similarity could breed confusion. I might wonder, “Is this the same John? Wait. Didn’t he have a different hair color?” But I love the idea of having the disclaimer about the similarity in name.
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Even if it’s over different series and the characters are different? I did have another idea where a set of names appear constantly because of a bunch of heroes that accidentally wished their names would live throughout history. That’s entirely different from this.
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I think similarity breeds confusion when it’s in the same book – but over a series, I think you could get away with it. I try to keep secondary character names different (I know there were A LOT of men named James, Richard, etc., in England and Ireland, but I only want one per time-period for clarity). But over a series? How memorable is the name? And do other names warrant a repeat?
I faced a similar situation in my work. Main character: Sean McAndrew; secondary character:James Connolly; tertiary character: Sean Connolly (not related). The second two were historical facts and I couldn’t get away from using them, but it made it very challenging to keep the names straight when the appeared on the same page. On the other hand, I do have several Marys, running around, but each one is in a different time period, which allows for separation.
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In the same series, I can see a problem. That’s why I was wondering about using the name in different series. I’m leaning toward only using it sparingly. I might have already done so with a few names like Kevin and Marcus.
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(Duh, read more carefully, Katie). Personally, I don’t see a problem. If every other person had the same name, then yes – but some names just bear repeating!
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It does make me wonder if the heroes of my current series should be retired. One could see children being named after them, which never seems to happen in other series.
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I think it’s entertaining – John Grisham and Robert Ludlum do it all the time – and explain the differences between the two (mikes, johns, etc.) Always a big kick to read the differences when the two are polar opposites.
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I probably have to be careful that it isn’t the same character type. For example, I had this name down for the significant other of two heroes.
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“No two snowflakes are alike” –
There are always differences, even in identical twins, if only we are willing to observe for long enough….
LOL
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I agree, which is why some of the responses have me confused. A bulky, brave warrior named Mark is entirely different than a thin, weaselly merchant named Mark in a different series. I’ll figure this out. Probably have to stew on it.
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Stewing usually produces the right answer. Lol
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Or find an author that’s smarter than I am. 😛
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I think as long as you …
A) Make it very clear that this is a popular name, and
B) Give the assorted Johns different enough looks/personalities that readers can tell them apart without too much difficulty
… it should be fine 🙂
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Thanks. I’ll definitely give it my best shot.
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as a reader, the same name MUST be spelled differently, if it is a new character in another series or I would become confused
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Not sure I can do that with this name. Even in two different series?
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Actually you are right; with a total new setting, surrounded by other characters, it will be obivous that there is no connection
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It is the same world though. I’m all confused now. I have people saying that in different series it’s fine. In the same world and different series, its’ fine.
Now I’m forming a plan to connect the two characters that are definitely going to have the name. Funny thing is that the second series won’t be for a few years after I finish Legends of Windemere.
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ahh.. so just see what feels right, intuitively when the time comes; your readers will follow your lead, responding just as you, the creator, wants them to
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Good point. By the time I reach the second series, I’ll have enough loyal fans to get away with stuff. 😉
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yup
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This is one of those cases where realism takes a back seat to clarity, in my opinion. Yes, in the real world it’s statistically likely that in a randomly selected group you’re going to get some with the same first name, but I think making things easy for the reader to follow justifies not repeating names.
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I can see that for the same book or series. My confusion right now is about why it would confuse a reader if a name shows up in multiple series where the cast and story are different.
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It would depend on the name, actually. If it were a name that sounded familiar, like “John The Knight” vs “John The Necromancer” like you said below, I wouldn’t give it a second thought. If it were archaic or foreign, but recognizable, like Cedric or Brutus, I would probably notice the repetition, but wouldn’t assume that it’s the same character or a relative, unless the characters were somehow similar. If it was a completely invented name, like Nimdoc The Knight in one series and Nimdoc The Necromancer in another I would look for a connection and wonder–didn’t that guy used to be a knight? What, did he take necromancer classes in night school or something?
However, I think having a different surname rather than a different title would probably not seem as much of a connection–I don’t think I’d assume that Nimdoc Thule was really Nimdoc Korab (unless it was a female character in a world where women take man’s surname).
Now that I think about it, I do tend to assume that names that are exotic sounding to me are unique to a particular character, which is rather provincial of me. I think that’s one of those unstated conventions of the fantasy genre. After all, when you say “Conan” nobody asks, “Conan who?”
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Very good points. I always double check my surnames to make sure I’m not repeating. I’m not as cautious on the first name, but this is really the first time I’ve run into this problem.
Where did Nimdoc come from?
We talking Conan the Barbarian or Conan the Talkshow Host?
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Also, as a reader I tend to look for connections between an author’s different works. I blame Vonnegut.
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Well, that won’t be too hard with me. They’re all in the same world, so gods repeat and older characters make some cameos. I have one book in my current series where a major character of the next series I’m planning shows up. It pushes the plot of Legends of Windemere along and sets up interest for the next series.
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Nimdoc is actually a character from Harlen Ellison’s short story “I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream”. That’s another issue–I have a crazy memory for character names. Real people I forget ten minutes after the introduction, but the names of fictional characters stay in my memory forever. I’m the same way with lyrics of songs I don’t like–I can’t ever forget them.
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That’s pretty useful. I’m always forgetting lyrics and character names. Drives me nuts when somebody quotes music to me.
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I wonder what I could do with those brain cells if they weren’t being used to store the lyrics to “The Man With The Golden Gun.” “Love is required, whenever he’s hired, it comes just before the kill…”
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Probably best they’re on that. Imagine if they snag a current song by Bieber or Minaj.
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In general, the whole process of giving names provides a lot of information about human projections, expectations and also reflects many psychological factors about the ‘author’. We know a little bit about you, Charles, as an outgoing person that likes attention and interactions with people. There are also known some key words about this not named yet character. Some bloggers know well many aspects of your hitherto creativity and after putting it together can generate good solutions, but I am not among them. What I miss here is seeing clearly your intention/purpose/message behind this series. Can you characterize it in about max. 70 words that will be addressed for people not knowing you and ‘fruits’ of your work?
After doing it, you and your audience, will be able to propose many more suitable names.
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Very well.
I am outlining a future series. Several actually. They take place in the same world as my current series, but different characters and story. There is a name that I would like to use for a few characters in these other series. My question is if it is wrong or confusing to use the same name in multiple series. The characters would be different and so would the stories, but the first name of a character involved would be shared. For example, I have a character named John the Knight in one series. In a later series I have John the Necromancer as the villain. In another people meet John the Baker for a brief moment. Is it wrong for an author to use the same name multiple times? As far as suitable names go, I’m not a big fan of letting people name my characters unless they’re playing them in a game, which I’m going to write a story about. Names are very important to me and hold an essence of the character.
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What about inventing and using not conventional names for your fantasy series? I like old pagan and native American traditions in giving names that had deep roots. The names like: CHILAILI: “snowbird”, CHIMALIS: “bluebird”, CHITSA: “fair”, CHLUMANI: Sioux: “Dew”, CHOCHMINGWU: Hopi : “corn mother”, CHOLENA: “bird”, CHOSOVI: Hopi : “bluebird”, CHOSPOSI: Hopi : “bluebird eye.”, CHU’MANA: Hopi : “snake maiden.”, CHU’SI: Hopi : “snake flower.”, CHUMANI: Sioux : ” dewdrops.”, CIQALA : Dakota: “Little one”, COAHOMA: Choctaw: “Red Panther”, COCHETA: “stranger”, DENA: “valley”, DEZBA: Navajo : “goes to war; there was no war” etc. – taken a small fragment from http://www.snowwowl.com/swolfNAnamesandmeanings.html . Base on it you can generate many combinations when also adding the latest technology inventions/vocabulary like nano-molecule, plasma, quark and new swearing like ‘son of a black hole’ instead of (s.. o.. a b..) etc.
If creating new series, why not going further and introducing some elements of a new language?
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I use a lot of names from around the world and some created names. Yet, I also have to be aware of pronunciation and clarity. Some names on a main character would be a problem because of a confusing pronunciation. I’ve read a lot of stories where the complicated names break me from the story even halfway through. I depend a lot on flow, so I need names that won’t trip up a casual reader.
You lost me on the latest technology inventions/vocabulary. I write sword & sorcery fantasy, which does have a tradition of whacky, odd names. I do that, but I try to rein it in for practical purposes. No Kalifaranod D’ulgrishion.
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if the character is the same character then he/she can bridge other series, if you are just stealing the name then readers of your previous work will probably end up getting confused, especially if they are hopping between books between the series’ just my thoughts on the subject not sure how valid they are
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or you can explain it by being a relation of the original character who is carrying on the family name and legacy…that would clear up any confusion…
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I have a third character that is named after the original. I played with the idea of having that character by this second one, but that connects some very powerful characters. Not sure I want to do that.
The original is a Queen and the second is a runaway princess being forced to marry a lord. She meets my world-saving thief and they have a relationship. I had her real origin be the daughter of a pirate and a dragon, but I’m not going that route. Entirely possible that she’s the daughter of that original character and a dragon. She could have been in stasis for a while until she wandered out and was adopted.
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Well, the first character with the name dies. The two that I definitely have slated for the name (this is first name only) have nothing in common. With the characters being about 20-30 years apart, I’m not sure if I can connect them.
It’s sounding like the general consensus is that every author can use a name only once unless they connect the characters.
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first names not so much…full names however yes they need a connection or explanation why two or three people have the same name…for example George Foremen went to Windemere banged a whole bunch of women named all the kids George…except the girls who he named Georgette.. for the record all of George Foreman’s kids are named George except for his daughter who he named Georgette… and actually being 20 or 30 years apart can be explained generationally…and use of bastard children is acceptable…just food for thought…
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Always loved the imagination of George. The man can get fat out of a burger, but can’t name his kids anything other than George.
This is only going to be the first name. I was going to use differently last names. Does that make it any better?
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first names re-occurring is not a big issue, although you might want to consider a nickname that can be thrown in occasionally to distinguish the two characters…it could be a nick name from childhood he is no longer referred to as, but such a reference would set up in peoples mind the character is very much different…
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Unless I go for the connection route. For a male character that would be easy. This one is female. Long lost child doesn’t work between female characters unless you set it up beforehand. I could do that by having the original mention ‘losing’ a child. Maybe the father took her at birth or something.
I could go really strange and have the original be pregnant when she died. The second one is the child that managed to be born anyway. I have to remember that I’m working with magic here.
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yes you have a world of opportunity with the ability to use magic to explain things also…
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This is why I love my genre. We can cheat.
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Not sure how magic would be needed to what I see as the mother basically dying in childbirth with the baby surviving. It would seem stranger to me that magic couldn’t save her.
As for the names … let me see if I’ve got this correct. Same world, different series, different people.
If they’re likely to meet, then I’d say go for it, readers aren’t that dumb.
If they do meet, it would be tricky and I wouldn’t risk it.
If person 2 comes across those who knew person 1, then I see it as an opportunity to clarify this is two different people.
But I’m not sure about more than two, unless the others are very minor characters. Which leads me to another issue: how important are the characters? If person 1 is secondary or minor, it would be easier to have person 2 share the name without too much confusion.
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I can’t answer the first question without spoilers. Suffice it to say that horrible, irreversible magic is involved. One has to be careful setting that standard of saving everyone with magic. That leads to a world where death isn’t a threat.
Person 1 is an important secondary. Person 2 is a main/secondary. Person 3 is a very minor that is named after Person 1. There is a chance that Person 2 and 3 could meet, which can be used for comedy. It’s a very slim chance of them meeting since I can easily have 3 out of town when 2 shows up.
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In my family their are a lot of Charleses. We have Charles Thomas, Charles Franklin, Charles Hamilton, etc…we always call them by both names and nobody ever gets confused. (It happened because people used to use last names as middle names for future generations.) We also have a lot of something-Pauls, like John Paul, James Paul, Joe Paul. It is probably a Southern thing to use both names, but I could see something like that working with fictional names in a fantasy book. John the Knight, John the Baker, and John the Necromancer work very well for me. I see them as distinctly different.
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I was going for different last names on the characters too. So far, I have the name slated for three uses. One is a character named in honor of the first. Only is issue is that #2 and #3 might meet, but I think that could be a comical scene.
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Yeah mine are all Hollands. Charles Thomas Holland, Charles Franklin Holland, and so on. Jon Paul Holland, James Paul Polland etc..at least we didn’t really call anybody Bubba…although i did have an Uncle we called Uncle Buddy who was named Ernest the II after my grandfather…and then there was my cousin, Ernest III
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I’m curious how Buddy came from Ernest.
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LOL…That, I could not tell you…it was probably just like Bubba but my grandfather didn’t like Bubba, he loathed it. he thought it rang of stupidity and Buddy was your friend.
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That makes a lot of sense.
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I am also curious to know how I ended up with two, not just one, Aunt Sisters, There was Aunt Sister (Cordelia) and Aunt Sister (Louise). Now almost all black women in GA call other black women or their female friends “Sister”, but how I came up with two Aunt Sisters concerns me from an incestuous point of view.
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What’s an Aunt Sister? Never heard the term before.
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That’s just what they were known by Aunt Sister, instead of Aunt Cordelia and Aunt Louise. Once I realized that your aunt could not also be your sister, it bothered me. I always though they were my grandma’s aunts and sisters. they were just her sisters, but they were my Aunts, thus the term Aunt Sister.
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Got it. I can see how that gets confusing.
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Enjoy it while it lasts and write like crazy 🙂 I’m happy for you.
Ellespeth
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Thanks. 🙂
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If you control the context well enough, using the same name for multiple characters in a novel shouldn’t be a problem, especially if the name is a common one like John. What I’ve seen done is to write the scene(s) with John #2 as essentially a short story embedded within the novel. Switching contexts, when done well, is usually sufficient to keep the reader from being confused.
To use the same name twice within the same context requires the author to constantly inform which character is being referenced, i.e. via a spelling change. I recently did a short story like that, “A Moving Tale”, posted here: http://fictionrules.wordpress.com/2013/06/15/a-moving-tale/ (And yes, some of the characters were ripped off from the “Newheart” show.)
When the works are completely separate, feel free to reuse character names!
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Thanks. I’m aiming for different works, so I should be able to avoid the context issue.
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Being ahead is better than being an ass.
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Depends on how nice an ass it is.
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uhm….
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Can I be a talking ass like the one from Shrek?
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I like the song.
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I’m a Believer is a great song.
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My first impression is that there are so many names available. Mix it up.
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True, but occasionally there are names that one really likes. It feels a shame to use a name only once when I have 40 series on my mind.
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So true. I am attracted to the same names and often when I write the first draft, the names are the same as the last one.
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Main characters I don’t repeat, but this is more of a secondary and then a main character. If I want to go totally off the wall, I can find a way to connect them even with 20-30 years apart.
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I just wrote a pretty long comment on this entry of yours only to have it say, “Sorry, this comment could not be posted.”
Then I lost it.
I am SUPER bummed out.
I’m sure you probably got better opinions on this entry than what I gave anyhow. 😛
I’ll just go do my frustrated moping (froping? *ding* New non-word) in private.
Sorry.
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Now I’m curious what you were going to say.
Sent from my iPhone
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I’m going to try again (only because you requested!).
Have you ever noticed that anything you’ve already said once and then have to say again (for whatever reason) never comes out as well because you felt like you’ve already said it? I mean, clearly, you HAVE said it, if you’re saying it again.
Then tell me why it’s so different on later drafts of books!
Anywho, I’m done being frustrated over losing it and I’ll try this here commenting thing out again.
Okay.
. . .
Basically, I was just saying that having two characters with the same name could potentially be EXTREMELY confusing for readers. I have the tendency to name lots of characters names that all begin with the same letters. It’s never anything to me. I know who they are and never even think about it. So I was surprised to find out that one of my friends got a few of them mixed up.
And in this new series I’m writing, I had to do something that I do NOT do – rename a character. His name was too similar to a character in another of my books (one letter difference). I still think of him with the original name mostly, and think of what it is now as something of . . . a nickname. They are who they are to you, you know?
I totally get what you’re saying about the ‘John’ thing. People have other people’s names. That’s life. I was thinking, maybe if you meant like . . . having it spelled differently to show, “Hey, this isn’t the same person.” But then you’d have to wonder if people would STILL think they were the same person and it had just been misspelled however many times. Or, “Which John is this talking right now?”
I don’t know. The way I look at it, they’re your books and your characters. You can do whatever you’d like with them! That’s one of the many ridiculously awesome things about it. 😉
I just know I was SO surprised coming to the realization that even naming them with similar first letters could cause some confusion. Not every person can like every book as we all know, but the less of those, “Wait. What?” moments we have . . . well, I guess that’s just better in my opinion.
This is way longer than the last was. And as I said, I’m sure you’ve already had some WAY more helpful comments from other people. Just trying to help, but I hope you’ve already resolved this issue in your head!
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Unfortunately, it’s a name that I could only spell differently by changing one letter. It wouldn’t make much difference and the two characters are never going to interact.
The consensus does appear to be that an author can only use a name once in their career. Even between series for some reason, which is the part that baffles me. I think there is little chance of people thinking these characters are the same as the first one dies and there are about 3 series between the characters. I could be entirely wrong since it appears it’s popular for authors to hide twists and messages in their books.
This is probably why fantasy authors make up their own names. Still, I have time to figure out what to do. There is a way to connect the two characters, but I have to decide if I want to go with that route. Honestly, with 40 series in my mind, it is a severe pain in the butt to not reuse common names.
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Charles, for a moment try to work harder by yourself with a feeling that you are a total looser and forgotten by everybody. It is brutal, but may work as today some doctors return to use shock therapies popular at the beginning of XX century.
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I’d rather not. I have enough people around me telling me that I’m a total loser. I can never let my confidence falter or I might slip back to what I was before I set out to be an author.
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I was not confrontational and trying to destroy your confidence, but only suggesting a short isolation that often (at least in my case) helps in regenerating the internal strengths (reloading ‘batteries’). I came to this conclusion after seeing your latest eruption in a number of the posted topics.
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No problem. The isolation isn’t an option since I have a kid. No time or resources to go for any form of isolation. The irritability might be these dang heatwave that is on its worse day today. Didn’t realize I was erupting.
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