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I was thinking about this topic when I overheard a conversation. It was a bunch of people making fun of the ‘Martha’ scene in “Batman v Superman’. Many found this to be ridiculous and stupid. I never really understood this since I saw it as something deeper than what you see on the screen. What do I mean?
Well, Bruce Wayne is Batman because of the trauma he suffered from the death of his parents. He has spent the entire movie treating Superman like an unnatural, inhuman alien. Hearing the name ‘Martha’ shocks him and then he hears that it is also the name of Superman’s mom. In my mind, this made him realize that Superman is more human than he realized. He has a living mother who is about to suffer the same fate as his own. An understanding or mild acceptance occurs. Unfortunately, you have to come up with this on your own since it isn’t outright said in the movie. Lots of hinting and a hope that people realize men have an odd habit of becoming friends over some ridiculous stuff. Seriously, men can bond over almost anything.
For those who haven’t rushed to the comments to argue about the scene, I want to talk about intent. This is when an author is hoping to bring a point across. Sometimes, they are blunt and make it clear what they are trying to say. Other times, they attempt to be subtle and depend on the audience coming to their own conclusions. This second method is where you run into the following risks:
- The audience creating different messages and arguing about them instead of polite discussion.
- The audience missing the message entirely and treating your creation as a fluff, shallow piece.
- The audience missing the message and making fun of scenes that make sense in specific mental context.
Effectively adding any message to a story requires that the audience does some of the legwork. Flat out telling them the message ends up removing some of the mystery and depth of the story. People might not enjoy as much and certainly won’t bother with a second reading since you’ve told them the big mystery. There’s no more urge to analyze and see if you missed anything. It has all been revealed. So, you need the audience to figure at least some of the big stuff on their own.
As I said, that’s where the problem can come into play. An author knows where all of the pieces go because we made the puzzle and broke it apart. A reader doesn’t have a clear guide to work with and some of the pieces can be put in differently. This results in a reader using the information intentionally given and some that were accidentally added to create their own message. I’d like to give an example, but anything can turn into a hidden sign if a person takes it a specific way. It’s part of the curiosity that most readers hold since a part of them wants to get a clue about things before the finale. We don’t like to admit this, but being able to predict the ending is seen as an accomplishment.
So, what can you do? I would recommend doing an editing run specifically to make sure there are enough clues to make your intended message be the one most likely to be figured out. There’s nothing you can do to entirely prevent misinterpretations without stating outright what you wanted to say. So, you have to roll with the punches and try to see where people are coming from. Maybe what the audience comes up with gives you an idea for the future of the story. It could very well mix with what you originally meant to say and give it more depth. On the other hand, it could be so far off the mark that you can’t acknowledge it without ruining the whole story. You have to love the challenges that come from readers being individuals with their own thoughts and experiences.
Legends of Windemere 
Don’t worry. I won’t argue about that scene because I only seen random clips instead of the whole movie. Your description does make sense since Superman has a living mother while Batman obviously doesn’t which adds to the dramatic contrast. I get that certain scenes can be overt and it ruins the message or it can be open to interpretation. However, there are creators who don’t know or don’t care about the subtext of their own work and could use editors or at the very least beta readers to help them out. Don’t get me wrong, there have been some cases where authors can appreciate some interpretations that make sense and appreciate the insight, but sometimes researching other things can ruin various scenes or stories. That’s not even counting random creator comments that could automatically put the subtext into the text in the worst ways possible.
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The thing with authors is that they’re human. So they don’t know every possible subtext or interpretation. Most are aware of only the one they’re pushing and maybe a few obvious ones. This is why I hate when people attack artists for something they might not have been aware of.
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Authors and creators certainly make mistakes, but it gets frustrated when fans treat them like gods of sorts or get a million excuses. There are some stupid insinuations from different fans whether it’s a shipping they wanted didn’t happen for their precious OTPs, a battle not going how they wanted, or something inane as someone screaming “white genocide!” whenever a story dares to have a (somewhat) ethnically diverse cast. I get that authors and creators have their own plans for their stories since they obviously have to write that stuff out, but there are more people than others think who either play dumb to say face or clearly know better about certain things. Sometimes when other quotes from the creators or other people get leaked, it can ruin the whole story.
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Most of that seems to be about fandoms. Those always have their own rabid sect though. As far as authors themselves, I don’t think they have nearly as much influence over their fan’s behavior as people believe. Not these days. I’ve seen so many incidents where fans turn on a creator after being told to calm down.
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Fandoms can definitely be crazy. I know not every single fan acts like those rabid sects (this is something I have to keep telling myself), but it’s no less frustrating when you don’t see the more level-headed people call out those who are being toxic. Is that so with authors? I can understand if they are indie authors where they aren’t well known, but I wonder if the bigger names or other creators just act silent or encourage bad behavior sometimes. I remember you telling me that a reader argued with you about the subtext of your work, and I’m sure that must have been a headache and a half right there. Were you referring to the creators trying to calm the fans down in those situations?
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The level-headed people avoid the crazies. The reason for that is they already know they won’t get anywhere. It’ll only result in them being driven away from the fan forums and maybe the franchise itself. The crazies tend to be the ruthless gatekeepers. I was referring to the creators trying to calm rabid fans. As far as the big names go, they have such massive fanbases that they might not even know about the rabid sect. They tend to be busy with projects and promos, which get followed more by the good people. The rabid ones don’t seem to actually interact with the creators as much as one would think.
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To be fair, I’m not a fan of most forms of gatekeeping unless it’s a more serious subject matter. The rabid fans are so obnoxious and they are the reasons why I don’t interact in these forums or even public spaces like cons. I certainly don’t want to be associated with crazy fans or being accused of one because not all canvases get a pass for bad behavior not that people should be misbehaving anyway. Sometimes I do wonder if the bigger names know or even care outside of their big circles if someone does find out something about one of their works. Not going to lie, it was enraging when I found a quote from a studio exec that said how they would “never dream of offending anyone” as a horrible excuse to not put characters who would naturally be in that environment which ironically is an offensive thing to say. I never wanted to be seen as some crazy fan especially when I bring evidence, logic, or show that I actually do read things because I’m sick of people thinking I’m stupid or over analyzing. I could see why the rabid ones won’t interact as much directly with the creators, but I wonder how much they would know.
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Studio execs are businessmen. Wouldn’t say they’re artists. As far as artists go, most of the big names have so many barriers to getting access to them. Agents, publicists, and more can block them from a lot of interactions.
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No disagreement about studio execs being business men and not being artists. I get that there are so many middlemen and other personnel out there in between. Not going to lie, I wonder how many of the big name artists and everyone else in between are in unison for whatever the stories mean or could mean to others.
I won’t mince words with the example I mentioned in the last comment. It was actually a Disney exec when someone asked why they didn’t have African humans in Tarzan and they said not having them was their way of not offending anyone. I discovered that quote from an academic article which massively offended me and have never seen that same logic said about other groups. No one can tell me anything about what was said and I brutally deconstructed that quote in a post I did last month on my film review blog where I talk about problematic depictions of Africa that not many people call out (as in tropes that aren’t so obvious or are considered “acceptable” in current society) where I throw dozens of various TV shows and movies under the bus including Black Panther and even THAT Tezuka anime project because I’m not a sycophant. It was also good to see people of different ethnic groups who appreciated that post and people directly from African countries telling me I really put that research in.
Getting that out of the way, I don’t want to just turn my brain off after dealing with people trying to be sneaky when they communicate things to me or trying to gaslight me just because I dare to critique something while backing things up with facts, evidence, and logic. I’m not saying you do this, but I’ve had people telling me I shouldn’t try to learn subjects like they want me to be stupid or at least naive about the world.
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I don’t think there’s a big unity thing with story meanings between artists and others. An artist typically has their own meaning in mind and that’s what they go with. Those around them usually agree because they’re discussing the story with the source first. Those who argue with the artist tend to be people who have ingested the work on their own, thought stuff up on their own, and have spent lots of time building on it without interacting with the source. By the time they meet, the person is so sure of themselves that they can’t believe any other meaning.
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I guess it depends on the medium. With books, it’s mainly the author or authors with editors and publishers if you use them. You would have more people involved if you worked on a movie or a TV show. It’s been a while since I’ve written fiction and I don’t want to have any problematic meanings, so I do a ton of research, think of my own experiences, and I am thankful to have friends from different ethnic groups to ask them on how to depict their ethnicities the right way if I’m not sure. I’m not someone who’s angry or depressed all the time (despite my trauma and being victimized) since I want to do something about it.
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Books have more people than one realizes. I’m talking about traditional authors too. They have editors, publishers, publicists, cover artists, agents, and more. Problematic meanings aren’t universal too. One culture will see something as bad and another will be oblivious to that connotation. So, it’s easy for even thorough research to fail.
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I’m well aware of that since there was one time where I hired one of my friends who’s a graphic designer to make a book cover years ago when I was a lot more active with fiction. There are times where I do bring up uncomfortable truths with history or problematic stuff in various stories, but I don’t want to offend people’s cultures. I’d never hear the end of it if I made a mistake with my creative projects like I’m supposedly not allowed to have grace if I were to err.
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I hadn’t thought of the idea of a reader building an interpretation until now. I was discussing with a reader (who stopped me while riding my bike). She was agitated at the direction I took for the characters. Her interpretation was something I had never thought of before, so I let her have her say. I thought it was just a moment of craziness, but your post convinced me to be aware of this going forward.
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It’s hard to predict too. You just never know where a reader’s mind will go.
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I found that out. She was like a Karen
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You’re so right, Charles. We authors never know what the readers may bring to our work. Everyone who reads it may have a different perspective. To me, all viewpoints are valid and I’m more inclined to allow them their own interpretation than try to control it.
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I’m fine with people having their own interpretations. It’s when they start pushing it on the author and others that it becomes problematic.
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There is a good lesson buried in there. More hints could assure the reader understands, but sometimes they can have free rein. I should be so lucky as to have a fandom to put up with.
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I’ve found that even blatant hints can fail. Readers can think they’re tricks to drive them away from the ‘true meaning’.
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Great points about being clear, because as you mentioned, readers will come with an interpretation. Sometimes those interpretations are posted on social media.
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Thanks. Social media has made it much easier to share theories. Then you get fractured fandoms over them.
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