Carl Sagan Quote (Supposedly. Internet isn’t always honest.)
I know I said I’d stick to Halloween stuff, but this is a topic that’s been on my mind. In fact, I had a rant planned and opted not to do it because I’ve done it before. Though I will do a mini-rant.
Basically, it is about how artists and the concept of imagination is treated today. Many times, you’ll see the idea of imagination get crushed because it isn’t practical, scientific, status quo, or whatever the reason. It seems harder to make a living off art or following anything more than the safe path. We see the same names appear in the news year after year with nothing new, which makes us think society is scared to try something new or even give it a chance. Negativity is hurled everywhere under the guise of keeping it real, IMHO, or whatever a person uses to sugarcoat the refusal to support someone. I mean, creative criticism is one thing, but flat out tearing a person down only helps to make them quit their dreams. What I’m getting at is that it seems like society has no respect for artists or anyone that wants to step out of their box. It has to be done in spite of others and against a wave of unnecessary hate instead of with an air of being supported. I mean, how many masterpieces have been lost because the person who could have made them was dissuaded or pushed into a cubicle? Even darker, how many cures or world-changing creations have been lost because the person was either crushed into being ‘normal’ or even taken out by the violence of our species? Yeah, I’ve been watching too much news lately.
Let’s get on with the questions:
- Do you think society has respect for artists? If so, is it reserved for those that have already made it and kept away from those that are trying?
- What purpose do you think imagination holds outside of an artistic field?
- If you could say one thing to an artist who is losing their confidence, what would it be?
This post is kind of long and you don’t have to stick to the questions this time. Promise that I’ll be back to the less serious questions next week . . . maybe . . . Don’t hold me to that promise.
Legends of Windemere 
I actually think society’s getting a lot better in respect to artists. Which is largely thanks to the internet — and hipsters! Thirty or forty years ago, “indie” wasn’t really a thing, was it? Not on the massive scale it is now, at least. You didn’t have people living in China being huge fans of a banjo player from Mexico and who buy all his albums (probably not a real example, but you get what I mean!). That being said, I think we should try to get back to the days of rich patrons supporting starving artists. I suppose government arts grants sort of do that, but it’s not nearly on the same scale as, say, Renaissance Italy.
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If not the rich patrons then something that can help a starving artist get a foot in the door. I’m still on the fence about society and it seems to change every day. There’s this weird habit of screaming for originality, but only enjoying a rehashing of something. It isn’t even a new thing that is connected to an old thing. Remakes, reboots, sequels, etc. seem to rule the landscape, which can be rather disorienting for a new artist. Do you carry on with something new or try to carbon copy the popular trend?
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Well, the big draw of rehashing is you know what you’re going to get. And in a world where technology is moving forward at light speed and leaving a lot of people in the dust, the familiar is very comfortable. Not to mention a lot of us find something we like, and then devour as much of that particular thing as we can get. Hence the appeal of fanfiction! So I’d say, for artists and creators, it’s really up to you. If you’re into the current trend, then you put your own spin on it. If you’re into something else, you do that instead. Or you choose to play the game for the sake of your bank account, and then work on your passion projects on the side.
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Makes sense and I have no real problem with reboots, etc. It just seems that it’s the only thing that’s being put out. Kind of like things are out of balance, so nobody is being introduced to new ideas. Stagnation can be an artistic killer even at the level of the overall industry.
Tried playing the game for the bank account and do passion side work. It didn’t go well. The main job exhausted me too much to do the side stuff.
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1. Do you think society has respect for artists? If so, is it reserved for those that have already made it and kept away from those that are trying?
I think that the lack of respect for artists is what lies on the surface in our increasingly technological age. And yes, it seems that newer people on the scene have trouble getting noticed. You see the same names over and over.
Scratching below the surface, however, I believe people respect the artistic visions of others. I can’t help citing YouTube where dozens of Jane Austen-inspired stories crop up. And of course J. K. Rowling fired the imaginations of millions with Harry Potter.
But yes, it’s harder to get noticed if our names aren’t Rowling or Patterson or Riordan or Sanderson or Collins. That doesn’t mean we won’t get noticed.
2. What purpose do you think imagination holds outside of an artistic field?
Imagination is needed no matter what field you’re in. Scientific breakthroughs can’t happen without the imagination.
3. If you could say one thing to an artist who is losing their confidence, what would it be?
Keep going. Easy to say, hard to do. A guy who won the Man Booker prize mentioned that he was rejected 78 times for one story (http://www.dpa-international.com/news/international/man-booker-prize-winner-gave-up-after-78-rejections-of-first-novel-a-46951402.html)
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1- Good point on it always being the same names. Occasionally, a new one trickles in somehow. I wonder if this is more because the media only focuses on the top tier and ignores those that are just below the surface. These are artists who are popular and successful, but don’t have whatever it is the media is looking for. It does seem that a lot of new artists that reach that top level come in with some type of hook. It isn’t just their stories or talent, but an aspect of their real life or a connection to previous work that gets them in.
2. Funny thing about science and imagination. I’ve met a lot of parents who want their kids to be scientists, so they dissuade them from using their imagination. If it comes up, they squash it or direct it solely at science fiction. As if all other genres are corrosive.
3. Wasn’t there a famous author who was rejected over 100 times?
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Louis L’Amour supposedly was rejected 200 times. C. S. Lewis was rejected hundreds of times. I know a writer who was rejected about 200 times for one book. And she still received rejections after the book was published.
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Weird. How does a book keep getting rejected after being published?
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Do you think society has respect for artists? If so, is it reserved for those that have already made it and kept away from those that are trying? I think anyone who has made it is someone in who the public is interested. Before that not so much only because if one hasn’t made it one cannot do anything for the person who is not interested.
What purpose do you think imagination holds outside of an artistic field? I think there is a good deal of imagination is new product development. Imagination has driven the new technologies.
If you could say one thing to an artist who is losing their confidence, what would it be? We all are in your shoes at one time or another. Just move on and do something you like with your art.
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1. But how can society help to allow those who haven’t made it work toward making it? It appears that respect and support are only given to those who have hit the top level and denied to those that are working hard to get there.
2. Except for the selfie-stick. Not sure what created that.
3. Great statement.
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Society does not want to help anyone do anything least of all make it to a position higher than the norm.
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Good point. We’re all on our own in some ways.
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I think so. There are a few exceptions.
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To answer your question, the writer I know had submitted her manuscript to agents and publishers. Some agents who hadn’t yet to respond to her query finally got back to her. By that point, her book had already been accepted by an agency and submitted to the publisher who had published the book.
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Must have been awkward.
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I don’t think it’s a lack of respect as much as unwillingness to invest the time in an undiscovered artist. How many more people will watch the MLB playoffs, but not slog through June and July? How many people never buy a book until it’s already a best seller? There is a similarity to those who carry around the newest technology, but don’t know how to use it. There is a certain poser factor involved,
There is imagination out there, and people like Steve Jobs had plenty of it. It takes imagination to get a manned mission to Mars off the ground, or design a hypersonic plane.
I suppose for those discouraged folks out there, I would try to be supportive, but I’m also kind of a fatalist too. We should do what we enjoy, and not everything has to become a business. My wife is an artist in the kitchen, and has no desire to publish a cookbook or host her own TV show.
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Excellent questions, but they are kind of sad too. No sense of risk or adventure these days, but I can understand that since money is tight for people these days. Like how people are pointing out that scientists and engineers need a level of imagination as well.
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Want risk and adventure, get on the Mars list. I think indie music is pretty popular these days too. The Internet has provided so much free content that those of us who charge face an uphill battle.Playboy magazine just decided that centerfold a no longer sell magazines for that very reason. I can read all the fishing stories I want via blogs…why buy Outdoor Life? One of us needs to discover something new, something everyone isn’t giving away for free.
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The thing with Indie music is that it’s fairly easy to put that on YouTube or a personal site. Books don’t really have that luxury. It’s also less time to listen to a song or look at a picture, so a freebie there is more inclined to get enjoyed. I’ve seen a lot of complaints about people doing free weekends and getting no reviews or acknowledgement even with thousands of downloads. So we’d probably need to discover something that counters that issue.
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I pushed a book per day for three days right before Christmas last year. I gave away thousands of copies. I never gained a single review, sales flatlined immediately after, and I have no evidence that anyone read a single copy. I got one remark that changed my MO. It went something like, “Ha ha, I get all my books for free. Eventually every author will give his work away.” I’ve never done a giveaway since. I’ve given dozens to friends, but no more free days on Amazon. Notebook is 99¢ if someone can’t part with that, they weren’t very excited in the first place.
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Excellent point on the 99 cent pricing. Sorry about getting nothing from the free books. Happened to me the 2nd and 3rd time I did it. 1st time was the biggest one and I think it got me one review. That ‘every author falls’ mentality really pisses me off too. I wonder what these people would do if artists stopped because they couldn’t pay their bills.
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I never planned on making a living at this. I also don’t have to give my work away. Laughing at me for doing so was probably a mistake. I learned that a giveaway isn’t going to help me into profitable territory. I’ll try something else.
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I’ve heard that the Goodreads giveaways work if you have paperbacks, but I never had luck there either. Maybe I’m just bad at giving stuff away. The laughing at you part is ridiculous. What possesses people to do that and think that it won’t offend? Then again, they probably want to offend.
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We learn, skin gets thicker, we adapt. One day, one of my crazy ideas will work.
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1) I love street artists because they are doing their best on their own proving grounds, demonstrating amazing talents. The art culture, or I should say insiders culture, is dominated by a select few and their politics is atrocious. It’s no different than the Hollywood culture. Same holds true in the music industry. It’s what makes shows like Idol and So and Sos Got Talent so appealing…seeing someone break through the barriers. Our local galleries are no different. They charge outrageous prices to show works and rent space, and most artists have to be sponsored to be able to afford to display. To get sponsored, you have to schmooze the right crowd. My grandchildren’s father is an artist (and he also cooks for a living), but getting his work seen at the Orlando Nude Night show required contacts. Friends of friends, with money. And it shouldn’t have to be that way. Another poor friend, is much more talented than he is, but he is seriously antisocial. He’s basically been run out of town, rejected at every venue. Sadly, our society respects money and those who have it or prove they can earn it. The days of rich patrons supporting artists still exist, but you have to conform to their rules and many aren’t willing.
2. L. Marie said it best: Imagination is needed no matter what field you’re in. Scientific breakthroughs can’t happen without the imagination.
3. Never give up.
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The rich patron system definitely still exists. It made sense way back when, but now it acts a bit too much like an iron door. It is rather frustrating that brown-nosing comes off as one of the ‘better’ tactics to getting ahead as an artist. Might even be more effective than talent if you look at a few people.
Artists that have trouble being social definitely have it rough. For them, there should be a focus on their talent instead of their personality. This is why I always wonder about how many masterpieces have been ignored or blocked.
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I was invited to a particularly posh wedding in the summer. Heck, even the former King of Greece was there. Surrounded by these hugely successful people, my tiny web design company was a joke. And yet, as soon as people heard I was also a writer, I could see their interest pick up. I had many an interesting talk that night – but none of it about my day job.
Also, to my surprise, one out of two had a book they wanted to publish. The other one had a book they wanted to write.
Re. imagination, I’m reminded of that Neil Gaiman quote:
“I was in China in 2007, at the first party-approved science fiction and fantasy convention in Chinese history. And at one point I took a top official aside and asked him Why? SF had been disapproved of for a long time. What had changed?
It’s simple, he told me. The Chinese were brilliant at making things if other people brought them the plans. But they did not innovate and they did not invent. They did not imagine. So they sent a delegation to the US, to Apple, to Microsoft, to Google, and they asked the people there who were inventing the future about themselves. And they found that all of them had read science fiction when they were boys or girls.”
(From: Neil Gaiman, Why our future depends on libraries, reading and daydreaming, http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/oct/15/neil-gaiman-future-libraries-reading-daydreaming)
As for a dispirited artist, the real question is one of expectations. A writer who writes because they have to is different to one that does so to make a living out of it. If our imaginary friend wanted to quit because they no longer feel the need to write, I’d say, go for it. If, however, the problem was that they can’t make a living out of it, I’d say they need to adjust their expectations. Worst case scenario, they might have to juggle writing and a job.
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I heard the same thing about the Chinese when I was trying to be a teacher. We found it funny that China was trying to instill more creativity in their society while the USA is hellbent on making people less creative. At least that’s how many feel about the way the education system aims for tests instead of forging a stable, knowledge-seeking, happy person.
Most of the people I’ve met seem to have a story they want to write as well. Makes me wonder if the urge to do so is in all of us, but modern society has made the effort seem wasteful. The interest people had in you being a writer is cool. That doesn’t happen very often here and I never figured out why. I tend to get the blind stares and nods with no real interest behind the eyes. The ‘practicality’ and ‘Plan B’ speech turned up so much that I rarely bring it up. Always wondered if this country had less respect for authors than others.
Situation definitely plays a part in what you say. When I wrote the question, I was thinking more of the artist who has been stomped on by obstacles. They really want to be an artist even if it doesn’t pay the bills, but all they’ve run into are rejections and blatant insults. Hence, why I wondered about the respect and support given to ‘struggling’ artists? Feels more and more like a person has to start in spite of others instead of with their help.
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It might help that people know of my day job, so in their mind it’s more of a hobby. I guess that takes care of the “practical” questions 🙂
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Now that you mention it, people were more interested in talking about my writing when it wasn’t the main job. Not sure why things changed since other careers earn questions and conversations.
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Maybe they’re just jealous 😉
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I don’t think the creative arts have as much respect as other fields in this world – it’s reflected in the fact that people seem to think they can ask us to work for free, give away our books for free, exhibit our paintings for free etc – because we’ll get ‘exposure.’ And yet, imagination is of huge importance to every human on the planet, because it allows us to dream, whatever our passion, and with that dreaming comes hope. And to a disillusioned artist, I would say, go back to what inspired you to create in the first place, and see if you can find the spark there again.
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Forgot about the ‘exposure’ thing. That always has the ring of truth to it, but then you realize that it can lead to being seen as someone who has no faith in their product. Just no winning on that path. Love the advice to find the spark again.
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Thanks Charles. And I fell into the ‘exposure’ trap a couple of times when I was younger – I’m just not doing it any more. I can’t think of many other professions where people are expected to work or offer goods for free, simply to ‘get their name out there.’
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I did it a bunch with giveaways and freebies when I started. Now I do teasers on the blog or occasionally create shorter works for a 99 cent release. It does feel like an indie author going free is seen as inevitable and ‘proof’ that they aren’t any good, which is frustrating. Closest thing I can think of are the people who give out free samples of food.
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I did a short free promotion recently that went well, and I would do that again as it has led to more sales and readers. However, I saw that as a loss leader, an I wouldn’t make the book permanently free. I think free food samples is a good analogy of that sort of promotion which I see as part of the cost of business. And I’ve done a goodreads giveaway as well. I write freelance too, and you do have to fight to get a decent rate for work.
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Perma-free is an odd tactic that I never got behind. I kind of understand it as a sample when you use it for shorter works, but a full novel doesn’t seem to mesh well in my mind. I had a great free outing the first time I did it with my first novel, but I haven’t had much luck the last few times. A lot of downloads, but never really feels like there’s a lasting impact. The Amazon ranking tends to collapse right afterwards too. I’ve heard of the battling that freelancers do. Very impressed by those who take the path.
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I think respect is still largely reserved for artists who have made it because of a lack of imagination!
Imagination is not only found in various artistic fields – you can find it in economics, politics, education, any field. But again, it’s an uphill battle to get anything imaginative accepted!
To the artist losing faith:Hold strong. Even some of the most famous artists in any field were not accepted until they had been around and contributing for a long time. It’s an uphill battle but the view from the top is spectacular (or so I’ve been told!)
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Definitely find imagination in politics. 😀
Uphill battle is a great way to put it. I know there’s something that went around the blogs about how many times successful authors were rejected in their early years. Really telling about how things work.
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