This is just a simple question post because I have a nagging feeling. I’ve had it for a while now and I’m going to throw it out to the ether:
Has something changed in the Indie Author world?
This isn’t the usually evolution that I’m talking about or the low sales I keep seeing posts about. I’m talking about a strange attitude change since 2014 began. It’s like something caused Indie Authors to panic. Some have even quit. Others have taken on an approach that any publicity is good publicity, so they start fights with negative reviewers and other authors. I’m even hearing about authors sending friends to sabotage book debuts. I’d never heard of this last year, so maybe it isn’t new. Yet, it’s making me feel like something is changing. Not for the better either.
Maybe I’m not getting the full picture because I’ve had my head in my own writing for a while. I don’t peruse the articles and get my information from various bloggers who pay attention to those things. I haven’t seen anything to explain the panic that I’ve sensed from many Indie Authors. Again, this is more of a feeling that’s been bugging me for months. Maybe I’m feeling out of it from exhaustion and nervously waiting for the last piece of my 4th book. Still, I was like this when I was on that 3 week vacation and couldn’t put my finger on the issue. It could even be something with a change in the blogging realm.
So, does anybody else think that there’s a change in the atmosphere of the Indie Author and/or blogging?
Legends of Windemere 
I hadn’t noticed this really, but personally I’ve decided to put my self publishing/writing on hiatus until the end of April, the beginning of May, when my course ends!
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Makes sense because you want time to promote and get it right. I think what confuses me lately is that I’m seeing a lot more aggression from authors. Not in the same person. Already this year, I’ve seen 3 authors go berserk on honest negative reviews and get fans to attack on the premise that the person was a troll. Disturbing. Others have taken an odd isolationism approach where they stick to their work and it’s rare that they lend a hand to other authors.
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I’ve seen it pop up now and again. For the quitting, it’s likely cyclical. I’ve seen quite a few quit or disappear last year. As for the nastiness, people suck. I’ve been reading articles about it since I started my blog a little over a year ago. Just pretend it doesn’t exist 😉
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Good advice. I was doing a decent job ignoring the nastiness, but I’ve gotten a front row seat to a few big battles. Not involved in them, but saw just how messy they could be. Maybe I was lucky that I made it a year without seeing another author attack a reviewer.
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Haha if you really want to see bad for creators against reviewers, research the indie video game scene. We don’t have PR people tempering us.
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I’ve heard some stories. Any idea why those fights get nastier than other arenas?
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Gamers are more high strung? Not sure.
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All that Mountain Dew and Red Bull.
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Yeah, must be something like this: J. K. Rowling writes a whole series; thousands of fans; one honest negative review (well-deserved on the holes), and the whole fandom attacks on you. This is not new.
I wouldn’t expect, however, seeing her being aggressive towards the issue or the reviewer. That is new.
I’m new to this world, but welcome feedback with all my heart. But, even on Wattpad, when I, myself, give them a critique, they just don’t accept it. They ask for it, and they disagree with it (Most get aggressive). I have no idea what the problem is, but it really bothers me too…
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Yeah. I totally get fandoms pouncing on those that bash their favorite books. That seems to be part of that world. When the author/creator starts the fight then it seems to be something different. It rarely makes them look good unless they have undeniable proof that they’re battling a troll with a grudge.
I’ve noticed that a lot of people ask for a critique when they really want a pat on the back. They’re so sure of their work that it never crosses their mind that they’ll get a bad critique, so they aren’t ready for it. I try to do a ‘positive/negative’ approach and I’m upfront with saying I’ll say what’s wrong if I find it. Then again, I don’t really do critiques and reviews.
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You should, it’s good for health. 😛
Seriously though, I always state this that I will critique not praise, but guess, all they want is a comment on their books. They think that by doing it, they’ll get a new reader, and I’m sure of it. Especially on Wattpad. Fame is all that matters. It’s so frustrating…beyond explanation.
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I used Wattpad for a bit and never got very far. I write fantasy adventures, which didn’t get much attention there. So, it’s interesting to hear how that site works.
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That site is (mostly) for teenagers. If one wants fame, or improve their writing (talking about serious writers), then it’s a great site. But, then you gotta write about the trending topic. There is a group of readers who tries to find original stories, but as long as it is in the trending genre; mostly teen fiction and romance.
But, if you’re a famous author on Wattpad, and write something serious, you might get that dreamed success.
Wattpad is an amazing site, if used well. 🙂
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Makes sense. I’m usually too busy with writing, blogging, and preparing for the next book debut to play around with sites like that. I do see that romance has more success than others, but I’m really bad at those types of stories.
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You can write an incident related to you and your beautiful wife. 🙂 that’s how a story starts. Romance.
I’m mainly write Romance. Still learning though. Always learning, eh?
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The learning is never done. 😀
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One of the best parts. 🙂
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I have noticed the same thing, but unfortunately have no solution. I think this is why several reviewers have written policies about not posting a less than four star review.
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Good point. The only thing we can do is not start fights with negative reviewers. That seems to only encourage others to hit with 1-star reviews based on an author’s behavior instead of the book.
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I think the reader platforms have sparked a lot of negativity. I know some readers are moving from Goodreads to Library Thing to avoid the controversies. I saw my book shelved there yesterday for the first time. Amazon forums have become another playing field. On the blogging front, things seem to have turned cliquish in several arenas. I guess that was inevitable because that’s how folk tend to do in real life. There are cult like leaders and followers behaving like middle-schoolers on the playground instead of professionals engaged in biusiness.
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I haven’t been doing much on the reader platforms aside from rating checks every day or two. I find it dangerous to interact with people there. The blogging cliques are odd to me. They don’t really help an author because it means your promotional help ends up coming solely from that group. In order to grow, you need to reach outside of the circle with every call for volunteers.
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I haven’t been writing and blogging long enough to notice this. It sound as if some writers have vested their sense of self in their works, and thus literary criticism is taken as a devastating personal attack.
I took a military “weapons system” approach to my first draft. I solicited test readers, and told them that negative comments were every bit as helpful as positive ones, if not more so. I wanted to know what I had gotten right and what I hadn’t. I’d consider a reader’s comments, make adjustments, and then seek another test reader; repeat. Iterative development, and the test readers got a sense of accomplishment, deservedly so.
I thus have little respect for Indie authors who behave as you describe. Childish and unprofessional. Why would I want to read anything that such a person writes?
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Sadly, those Indie Authors tend to paint the entire community with their actions. Those that ignore the trolls and move on don’t get the attention that the brawlers do. To each their own. There are all kinds in the indie author community.
I like that approach for handling first drafts. I tend to stick to a few people for opinions since I’m far in to the series. It gets tough to find new beta readers when you’re fixing book 6 and they haven’t read book 1.
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Excellent point on the differences in our circumstances, and how they would affect the use of test / beta readers.
Slightly OT, I found a meticulous Irish gent proof reader via elance.com. Very reasonable fees. I wanted one final review for errors/typos, notwithstanding that I paid for professional editing, have been through it a dozen+ times myself, and have had the feedback of multiple test readers. I suppose authors will always have their detractors, and I don’t want to give these prospective naysayers any ammunition with which to attack my controversial work.
So, I am now making the final final corrections to the text.
What are your thoughts and experiences on the need for proof reading / eliminating errors v. biting the bullet and finally getting the darn book out there?
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I’ve never actually used a paid editor or beta reader. I use friends who love picking my stuff apart and other friends who are big on grammar. So, I can’t give an opinion on that part of your question. That being said, I think you should try to eliminate as many errors as you can, but there will always be something. Even traditionally published works have a typo or two. Editing can be a safe zone for authors because it is working without going out there. I know a few who are trapped in a state of seeking perfection that will never happen.
My personal rule is that if I’m editing and making changes simply for the sake of making changes then I’m done. The author can easily miss a typo because we’re looking at continuity, character development, and everything. So, don’t get upset if you publish and hear about a few typos. Though it doesn’t hurt to search the first chapter with a fine tooth comb.
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Thanks, Charles. Appreciate your take on the matter.
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You’re welcome.
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This is just an opinion, from an unpublished writer, and I hope I am wrong. With the boom in digital publishing and the low cost of self publishing (for those that don’t try to do it right), I think we are seeing an infusion of speculators and “get rich quick” scheme hunters. Think of the 49ers chasing gold after it was discovered, the dot com bubble or, more recently, housing speculators. I think we are heading toward a bursting of the “self publishing” bubble and then things will get back to being serious.
Yes, I am a bit of an economic history buff and sometimes I transpose that history onto other areas. But there seems to be a lot of similarity. The good news is that once the bubble bursts and the scavengers are scared off, a new industry will arise. The gold rush gave us Hollywood, dot com bubble gave us ebay, Amazon and a World Wide Web. We still don’t know what will come from the housing bubble, but I think the self publishing bubble we may be seeing will leave us with authors in control of their work and readers in control of the best sellers list.
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I’ve been wondering about that. There are a lot of authors that aim for churning out a slew of 99 cent works. Many times these aren’t the best quality and it fills the market. An issue that many people have with the indie authors is that they flood Amazon with mediocre books. I saw a lot of articles about that last year. Now, some authors can crank out a ton of short stories that are high quality, but they get overshadowed by the ‘easy money’ people. One of those articles quoted somebody that had published nearly 400 books at 99 cents each and he said he hates reading, but it’s so easy to write a story, slap on a cover, and toss it out there.
I’m curious to see what happens when the bubble bursts.
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I only hope that Amazon, Smashwords and other sites like those, can weather the bubble. I am hoping they don’t get jaded by the money chasers and start increasing their fees to publish. I am also reluctant to call anyone that writes words, “slaps” a cover on it and puts our junk, an author. Once that type of person is gone, the real authors will have an amazing outlet to share their art.
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I think Amazon will be fine. They’re already creating things like Kindle Worlds and stuff for short stories and essays. I wouldn’t be surprised if Amazon and Smashwords comes out stronger because they have a more serious author catalog.
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As others have suggested, I think it’s just cyclical. I’m in a bit of a down spot because nothing I’ve published is selling much these days, I’m not doing any promotions, and my writing has slowed to a snail’s pace. But, I am lining a couple of things up. For me, with the day job, the family, and the usual life stresses, it’s impossible to maintain the same pace of excitement, motivation and activity on the ol’ publishing front throughout the year.
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Life does seem to get in the way at times. Honestly, it’s getting harder to promote books that have been out for a while. After all, how long can you keep a sidebar ad up on a site without it becoming part of the scenery?
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One of the unfortunate side effects of indie publishing and e-books is the “need” to publish. To always have something new out there. It creates a lot of pressure to put stories out there before they are ready and in some cases stories that may never be ready.
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With the new book, I’m going to test a 2-3 month advertising plan. I have my debut sites and then I have bigger sites that I plan on spreading out throughout the following months to help keep momentum for the next book. Hopefully that gives me more time to get cover art and editing done on the next book.
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I’ll admit I haven’t noticed any real change, but I live in a vacuum of reviewing. I don’t visit forums or engage in the drama of the indie market. I read, I state my opinion, and I move on to the next book. I have run across quite a few negative people who don’t take criticism well, but I think that’s less of an indie market thing as an individual one.
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I agree. I think those that explode at negative reviews are a vocal minority. I know more authors that shrug them off or vent in private than going on the attack.
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Can’t speak about the indie author scene, but in the blogging realm I have noticed an uptick in drama recently. “Friends” turning on each other. Bloggers going on witch hunts. It all seems a bit out of place for what we are all here for: support, build an audience, freedom to create, etc…
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I’ve noticed that too. A lot of feuds and high emotions all of a sudden. It’s a little disturbing at times. Haven’t seen the witch hunts yet.
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What you’re now noticing has been around for a long time. Authors come and go based on a number of things–family changes, job changes, emotional state changes. Not sure who left in 2014. I hope it’s no one I know!
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I think it’s the increase in aggression from authors that has me more worried than the people leaving. Things change and people reorganize priorities.
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(Posted the comment before I was done writing. Dang phone call.) I was going to say that seeing authors pounce on other authors or start public fights with legitimate reviewers has me worried. It strikes me as immature when there’s really nothing to fight about.
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From a blogging standpoint I haven’t really noticed anything. As for the indie author, I don’t have any direct experience with it, but I would imagine the environment is constantly changing. With so many new authors publishing and all vying for a piece of the readership pie, I would imagine that things will get more difficult. I really don’t have any idea how to fix it other than to build a loyal following over time and hope that eventually that will equate to a much large “slice” of said pie and maybe even a route to traditional publishing.
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The thing is that I don’t think it’s as competitive as people think. Not in the way where you have to destroy other authors. Promote without taking out your peers is a better approach because it nurtures the overall community. It’s still a fight to prove that Indie Authors are worth attention.
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Perhaps it just has to do with the numbers more than anything. There just used to be fewer indie authors than there are now. Back when, everyone used to really try hard and take their time with it because it was such a new field. But now everyone is rushing to throw themselves in there, sometimes with less-than-stellar work, who haven’t prepared themselves for any kind of negativity or don’t feel ingratiated to the community. They’re in it for the profits, and they have a win/lose mentality. Because I feel like the longer you have to work for something, the more you strive to make it perfect, the more respect you have for that process and others who are trying to make it work.
Anyway, that’s just my guess, but it makes me sad to hear. 😦 We should be helping one another, not tearing each other down!
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It makes sense. I’m sure there are all kinds. A few berserk authors that I saw last year seemed to the type that never got criticism before. Some people seem to go in after being praised or they go for a long time without a negative review. So the first negative that appears is an anomaly to them. Due to a lot of attention on hateful reviewers and unfair negatives, these people jump to the conclusion that they’re dealing with a troll. So they fight and make a mess. The Internet is a really bizarre place at times.
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That’s so true.. xD; It’s like a bunch of drunk people all together, doing things most of them would probably never do in person, but there you go.
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Exactly. Face to face these people would be either timid or polite. There’s a strange mentality on the Internet that a person has no consequences for what they type. I guess the threat of being screamed at by someone isn’t very big when it’s nothing more than words in caps.
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I’ve seen a bit of this too Charles. There are some really vicious people around and about. They would probably be mean no matter what their profession was. That’s why I stay in my “safe zone”, and try never to attract their attention. That’s also part of the reason I’m reluctant to post a negative review – apart from the risk hurting some poor hardworking fellow author – you could end up with a whole bunch of their fans taking you down unfairly.
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I try to do the same thing. Just keep doing what I’m doing and avoid the drama. Being an Indie Author is hard enough without the flame wars.
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You’re so right. I can understand those that close up shop too after dealing with onslaughts like that – they look really terrifying, and most of the “good guys” won’t generally step in to help, because they’re obviously nervous about being attacked also, so there’s not much help for those guys either.
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I’ve seen quite a few fights where someone steps in to calm everyone down and the fight spills over onto their books. There’s even been times people that are riled up at an author will go after their friends. It’s a disturbing mentality of destruction. Once I commented on a friend’s blog post on the subject and the next day I got a 1-star on Goodreads as well as 2 ‘Will Not Read’ shelves. I got curious and these people did the same to every author who commented on the post. I’m glad it was that tame, but it really made me want to keep my mouth shut.
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It’s the best way for us right now – you’re right. When Goodreads stepped in a while ago and deleted a whole lot of vitriol, those guys who post the 1 stars and the comments like “this author deserves to be raped” actually all complained bitterly. They have their own groups on GR, and now that that business has died down, they seem to be getting back to business.
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I remember seeing a few of those bookshelves. How can anyone think that’s a mature way to act? I thought GR was still keeping the reins on the bad behavior. I know of a few authors who went wild on reviewers and were deleted, so I figured they were doing the same thing with the readers who attack in the same way.
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I’ve followed a couple of links lately to GR, and they seem to be ongoing – I’ll try and find them again. I know the authors were deleted, but I didn’t know that the reviewers were too. There are thousands of them though, so it can’t be easy unless they’re reported. I can’t remember the last author’s name who I saw being trashed like that, but she hadn’t commented at all, poor thing. Maybe she’s just going to ignore them – if so – good for her!
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I’m not sure what gets a reader/reviewer deleted. I know it’s a lot easier for an author to get booted even for a minor fight with people. I think they draw the line at personal attacks in reviews and bookshelves that are morally disturbing like those ‘author should be raped’ ones. I wonder why some authors get pounced on when they don’t comment. Maybe it’s something on another site. Honestly, I’m iffy talking about it even here.
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That’s the thing about bringing these things to light on our blogs. After I posted my troll post, it occurred to me that I could be looking for trouble. And if your blog buddies try and support you, and I’m sure some will, then they’re also at risk. Still. If anything that bad did happen to me, I’m not sure what I would do – more than likely hide under the bed. A lot of those reviewers seem to be really young – I made a point of looking at some of their profiles and there are a lot of 18 year olds in that club. They don’t realise just how bad what they’re doing is maybe, and think that they come across as really clever and arty. It is iffy talking about it. Probably like sticking your tongue out at a street gang and blowing them a raspberry. 😀
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I’ve seen a lot of older reviewers who seem to be the ringleaders. At least from my travels, I found a handful of people who claim to be reviewers/readers standing up against badly behaving authors. I wonder if this grew from an actual need where authors were attacking, but now they go after anyone who says something. One author was forced to quit after asking a question on a forum. Another was attacked for promoting on a forum that they shouldn’t have. Instead of answering the question or politely telling the person they were in the wrong place, they were attacked. That’s why I’m always scared about getting into these talks in public.
The entire issue has hit a pretty high level of attention though. So maybe something will be done to stop the rabid members of both sides and things will take on a more civilized manner.
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I hope so. After two really bad experience on FB, I seldom post anywhere other than on my own sites, blog & Twitter. I once posted a blog on a FB group, and got really badly attacked by the group owner – she said my post wasn’t about anything – then a couple of days later she posted a 5 star review for one of my shorts. I’ve stayed well away ever since. You never know what mental issues people are dealing with, and how much they are prepared to let loose. It’s much nicer here on the blogs with civilised folks.
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Weird. I’ve always wondered what happens when someone goes on the attack and is vicious. Then a few days later they’re trying to be nice to the victim. Yet there’s never an actual ‘sorry’ in there.
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That was weird. She never got a thank you from me though. Maybe she was having a bad day and then felt guilty or something. A ‘sorry’ would have been much better than the five star to be honest. She put me off blogging for weeks because I thought that I was just spewing rubbish. I think you have to be quite tough to do what we do – and most of us are just old softies.
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Part of the ‘fun’ of being an author. We channel emotions into our books, which leaves us open to the barbs of the Internet. Some days I envy those that can pull up their armor within seconds.
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You see such negativity from time to time, but I believe it ultimately backfires to the people dishing it out. When they realize it’s not working or having the opposite effect as they intend, it usually peters out. Unfortunately, there are a few who will never learn or change…
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Exactly. I’ve seen a few authors self-destruct by attacking others. It isn’t pretty. They end up spending most of their time fighting, so anything they put out is tarnished.
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Yes, I’ve sensed an industry-wide shift. I see it as a transition. The Indie publishing market flew open and everyone who could write a grocery list ran inside with the idea they could write a bestseller. Now, readers are becoming more savvy and discriminating. Too, industry changes are being initiated to make it easier to weed-out the writing pretenders. It’s a sign that Indie publishing is gaining respect. Of course, those writers who shouldn’t be here, rather then actually writing a compelling book, are turning on their fellow writers.
More needs to be done, of course, like stopping the trolls, especially in places like GR. That place is going to become a footnote pretty soon if they don’t clean-up their act. Indie publishing is emerging from its infancy so its an unstable time, but the opportunities remain for those who know what they’re doing and know how to, oh, I don’t know, write?
As someone who’s produced multiple books I sense that your finger is on the industry’s pulse more than mine, but this is my take from what I heard from others and have read. Yes, you want to be careful, but at the same time the opportunities abound and for those who survive this tumultuous period there are better things to come.
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I’m actually in the dark a lot because I have my head in my own fantasy world. I figure out enough to keep myself moving, but the meat of the industry tends to sneak up on me. Funny since I can never find a pulse on a person either. 🙂
Good point about writers turning on each other as the industry grows. There’s a sense that only a few can survive, so the more vicious and aggressive will go on the attack. I think GR is a great example of where lack of rules is causing trouble. Seems to be a lot of brawls, but I’ve heard that authors and reviewers that get into nasty fights can be removed now. Though, it’s easier for authors to get in trouble than readers.
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I’m glas to hear they’re cleaning up their act because the concept there is a good one. You make me feel better because I’m also wrapped up in writing and too often out of touch. Industries always consolidate eventually. Look at how many US auto manufacturers there were 100 years ago.
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Very true. It’s going to be interesting to see where Indie Authors stand at the end of the year. People keep saying that big changes are happening. Not sure what those are, but it seems to have riled a few people into eliminating ‘competition’. Rather confusing for those of us that consider this a team event.
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I agree. Those who shouldn’t be here, who shouldn’t be writing (like me fronting a successful band) will eventually go away, but it’ll be an ugly process for some. Since, at heart, they aren’t writers they don’t understand that it’s a team event and not a feeding frenzy. They’re circling the wagons, or worse, trying to cut down the competition to make themselves look better. That disgusts me. In the end, those who struggle, but possess talent, class, and a team orientation, will survive—or, at least, I hope they will. 🙂
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I hope they will too. I do fear that some talented people are going to fall to the predators. Talent doesn’t always mean toughness in this business.
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