Code of Chivalry
Luke Callindor– Not really sure what I’m reading here. Some of these things make sense, but . . . What does it mean by ‘Arts are the food of the chivalrous?’
Nyx– I think it means to enjoy the arts. This seems like a code of conduct for noblemen or warriors.
Sari– Guess that means I don’t have to listen to it. Three cheers for thief types! Woo!
Nyx– Put the booze down, little sister. We should get to that question at the top. I think honor is very important for adventurers. Though it seems to be defined differently for each person.
Delvin Cunningham– Good point. Being a mercenary, honor isn’t always part of the job unless you’re in a position to being picky. That takes a while and maintaining any sense of honor is tough at the start.
Luke– Even if you come from Selenia’s school?
Delvin– That helps, but it doesn’t mean you get to act spoiled and turn your nose up at jobs from the beginning. At least being an adventurer, you get to maintain a constant sense of honor.
Timoran Wrath– That is not always the case. An adventurer’s lack of affiliation means that they can get hired for more despicable jobs. For example, hiring one to be an assassin would leave less of an organizational trail than if you hired a mercenary or guild thief. You cannot lock down a wandering adventurer.
Sari– You really think there’s a lot of honor among thieves? Not really. It’s very fluid in that world. Sure, gypsies are loyal to family, but we’ll turn on an outsider if they tried to turn us against our loved ones.
Nyx– That’s more common than you think. Honor seems so fragile at times. You develop it without realizing it, but one misstep can shatter your code.
Luke– Not everyone is like that. Some people have to work really hard to be honorable, so it isn’t as hard-wired as you think. Also, it’s definitely possible to recover broken honor through acts of redemption.
Timoran– Very true, my friend. My people have various trials for those who wish to regain their honor. Though certain crimes result in execution or exile.
Delvin– Being from a warrior culture, I’m sure honor is very important. The code you follow becomes intertwined with loyalty, which is needed on the battlefield. I hate to admit it, but I don’t really think about honor too often. I do what I feel is right for myself and my friends.
Sari– So, are you saying that people are inherently honorable or dishonorable?
Timoran– I hate to say yes, but that is the case with some people. The concept of honor is dependent on instinct, culture, upbringing, and so many factors that one cannot put more than a personal definition to it. Some pieces will carry over from one explanation to another, but the nuances will be different.
Luke– Guess this discussion could go around until we pass out.
Timoran– This is why my people have such discussions over food and drink. Eventually, we agree to disagree and enjoy the company.
Nyx– I think I’m really going to like being in Stonehelm.
Legends of Windemere 
Great chat, and an interesting format. Is that what your first drafts look like? Reads like a movie script 🙂
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My first drafts look like regular stories. I can’t even imagine having a first draft or even an outline like this. Think my obsession with preparing would make me cry at this. The format is one I trot out from time to time to give the characters some chat time. It beats always giving my opinion, especially when it varies depending on who I’m writing.
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Interesting. Actually, some of my first drafts are similar to that, only without the names. I do the basic dialogue, then add all the rest.
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That’s rather unique. I always need to know who said what, so I need the names. Dialogue for me just flows after I mark the points I need characters to hit in the scene.
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It helps that I only have up to 3 people in most of my scenes 🙂
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I remember those days. Legends has gotten a little crowded at times.
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Interesting post. What if #5 and #7 are in conflict? Or 7 and 10?
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Guessing #5 supersedes #7 because nobody questions the king/nobles/rulers/whatever in those days. As for #10, I think it would have to do with how that culture treats women. If they’re ‘seen and not heard’ then them being ignoble wouldn’t be taken seriously. It could also define ladies solely as those in the nobility.
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Some people just need a little scorn. Prince John from Robin Hood comes to mind. High station, but worthy of scorn.
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True. Though wasn’t he an usurper? Guy wasn’t working with a lot of respect to begin with then.
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Way in the back of my mind I have a story brewing. I already have a rough outline. It involves a bunch of propaganda, deceit, deception, etc. Messing with this code might be fun.
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That reminds me of something I recently read. The Russel Crowe ‘Robin Hood’ was originally supposed to have the Sheriff as the good guy trying to keep the peace. Basically, the story from his perspective because he probably did think he was the good guy in some versions. Not sure how true it is though.
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Goes to the advice that everyone is the hero in their own story. Interesting.
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True. Though I still always wonder how a character who revels in villainy would operate.
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I think the world is moving away from villains who are evil for evil’s sake. Modern readers want to see them as whole people these days.
Part of me wants to try a short story one day that is pure melodrama. Then I could use every unforgivable trick on the list. I could present it tongue-in-cheek, and make it kind of a comedy.
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To be honest, I’m getting bored of villains with a heart of gold. I know modern readers are wanting them, but it seems nearly every bad guy is on the verge of going good or earns some sympathy. I admit to doing this a lot with my villains, but I’d like to think there’s always even a small interest in a pure evil character. I mean, those can be unpredictable because they have no limits as to what they would do.
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You need your own Joker.
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I think every author would love to have their own Joker. Not sure any of the Legends of Windemere villains hit that mark.
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Even my bad guy in Playground was motivated by greed and power. One that is pure evil with no motivations would be hard.
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No motivations is tough. Hatred and causing pain are rather evil ones. I know Stephen in my books is driven by greed, power, and sadism. That’s probably why he’s so irredeemable.
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That’s tough to get over. I’m struggling with Jason Fogg right now. His addiction to women is hard to work around, particularly with his unique abilities. I enjoy a challenge though, and will keep working on him.
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There are plenty of heroes with a love of the ladies. They tend to be anti-heroes or a roguish type. Like James Bond and Tony Stark. I’m sure you can find a way to make it work.
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Great dialogue! And for what it’s worth, I think it’s a great code except for perhaps #15. Bit harsh, that.
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Especially since we don’t know what the cause is. Death to all those who are against Pizza Fridays wouldn’t make much sense. 😀
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Quite right! Even if the cause is quite a good one, death is a bit much. A vicious tickle should suffice.
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Probably one of the big reasons this code isn’t used today. Especially since nobility in some countries isn’t a thing or is skewed to celebrities.
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I loved this dialogue. Honor personally to me is a big thing. Must have been a knight back in the day lol
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It’s interesting how honor can be found within some ‘evil’ groups too. There are thieves who are honorable amongst their group. Some assassins have codes of honor even though they kill. This is why I wonder about the fluidity of it.
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I agree
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I enjoyed the characters perspective. I like the idea of sitting down with food and drink and then agreeing to disagree.
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Seems to be how a lot of these end. That and with Sari preparing a party.
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Sari is the best
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Interesting code. I don’t quite agree with #s 14 or 15 but love #17. 😉
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It’s the Knight’s Code of Chivalry. So it’s definitely from a different time. Reading this, it makes me wonder about the phrase ‘Chivalry is Dead’ and how that tends to be a complaint.
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Interesting to re-read the Code of Chivalry. They mention respect more than I had remembered. Still, the sardonic part of me wonders whether their definition of “lady” would cover every female or only those they consider “worthy.”
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I was wondering that too. I’m guessing it was only ‘ladies of the court’ or something like that. The phrase ‘Lord and Lady’ keeps coming to mine, which makes lady more specific than woman and female.
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I’d be happy to debate these codes for hours, but only if someone else buys the root beer.
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Does seem like any code of honor could be questioned. Makes one wonder how chivalry lasted for so long, but I guess the whole monarchy thing helped keep it going.
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